86 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

I wasn't aware of that.  Does it apply to regionals, nationals, or just Runoffs? 

 

SCCA 7.4.D Schedule:

 

Regional, national, refusing to tear down in mechanical protest, request for action, or chief stewarts action equals DQ, 6 month suspension, $250.00 fine and 6 points.

[Rob Burgoon]

I wasn't aware of that.  Does it apply to regionals, nationals, or just Runoffs?  I've never been asked to do a tear-down, but since I have to drive the car home, I always figured I could just decline and accept a DQ.  If it's a universal 6 month suspension, that would pretty much eliminate anybody driving the car to the track anymore, which would cut participation considerably.  Most folks, even in my area, do trailer their cars, but a lot of them started racing by driving the car to the track -- if they had to jump in with a truck and trailer from Day One, I fear that many of them would never have started racing at all.

 

How much would a tow home cost you?

 

Unless a cam gets sent away for measurement, the question also becomes "how much would it cost to have the shop/person put your car back together".

 

Bumming a shock off someone probably wouldn't be hard.

[Ron Alan]

[quote name="Jamz14" post="43386" timestamp="1362523357"]Hey Ron,
 
I don't understand the comment. I am not wishing for anything. Only stating that there was no mention in the CCR's on additional penalties for refusing a tear down and that I had heard the car was not going to be competing in more NASA races this year.[/quote]

[/quote]"No matter, I hear it will be SCCA's problem soon"[/quote]

I guess I took this as kind of a good ridannce...to the participants btw(the car can't go by itself)! People,problems, good and bad move back and forth between the 2 clubs. What is SCCA'S problem today, may be yours and NASA's tomorrow. It's a small community! I wasn't being critical...I should have put at "lol" at the end!

[FTodaro]

Not trying to start any  .
 
How come when we talk about the weight of cars and the torque of cars we never talk about weight pre foot pound that each car (1.6, 99) is required to accelerate?

131in a heavier 99 is unheard of and in the 1.6 is lighter, would be super size miata power

Did not anyone see that turbo under there some place.

[Danny Steyn]

In South Florida a couple of years back we had a really fast rocket ship SM that looked just kinda all wrong. Some guys got together to raise the protest bond on the engine, SCCA tech wasn't thrilled go through with it, but the guys persisted, When confronted with the prospect of tear down, the entrant opted out and took the 6-month ban. Car came back a year later but never ran at the speed it was before. 

[Jim Boemler]

How much would a tow home cost you?

 

Unless a cam gets sent away for measurement, the question also becomes "how much would it cost to have the shop/person put your car back together".

 

Bumming a shock off someone probably wouldn't be hard.

Well, the tow is 200 miles, so it's not cheap.  As for reassembly, the cost isn't dollars, it's time -- it would mena staying overnight, and missing work the next day.  I agree a shock is no problem, but an engine or trans would be.  I'm glad I never read that paragraph, or I would have missed out on years of racing.

[Tom Sager]

Waaaayyyy back in the day, there were some Renault LeCar's running in SSC.  They were very underpowered and often rolled onto their side in tight corners.  Over time most of them were cheated up, the most common cheat being lowered springs which made them faster and kept them from rolling over.  At Lime Rock one of those damn things showed up and put a woopin' on the field, passing all those high powered pintos, vegas and opels on the straight.  Very suspicious.  Protest filed. They open the hood and start poking around and found the car had a completely different engine installed.  Instead of the standard 1.4 litre (I think), it had a 1.7 from some other Renault model.  

[fishguyaz]

am I wrong but there seems to be a BIG difference in how NASA ans SCCA handle this?

nasa will take matters into their own hands on suspicious cars and check them out.

 

scca will ONLY take action when a competitor files a protest. as i understand it, in scca we cannot just say "the motor is illegal so tear it apart and find the issue" I think we must be specific in what item(s) we want tested AND put up $ as a protestor.  if this is the case( as i understand it) it would be MUCH harder to be caught in SCCA.

I guess this is how scca prevents protest from guys who "know" someone is cheating based upon the fact that they were simply beaten by the other guy.

 

i just cannot figure out what satifaction is gained by knowingly racing a cheated up car(in any class), and why people make the effort in time and $ to attempt this.

[Jim Drago]

Frank, I didn't say a word about the 1.6 with 131hp.

Do the math, car weight pounds/foot pound of torque for the 1.6 and for the 99 then please provide your thoughts.

David Dewhurst
1990

Start another thread or add to the 1000 others started please..

[Jamz14]

[/quote]"I guess I took this as kind of a good ridannce...to the participants
btw(the car can't go by itself)! People,problems, good and bad move back
and forth between the 2 clubs. What is SCCA'S problem today, may be
yours and NASA's tomorrow. It's a small community! I wasn't being
critical...I should have put at "lol" at the end!"[/quote]

 

Ron,

 

Understood. Forums are terrible for conveying intent and meaning, and I have an additional problem of my words coming out much harsher than my intent.

 

Actually I don't want the car to leave NASA at all!! I Want the fields as large as possible and to have my driver competing with the best. Only then will I know that the driver of my car has what it takes to be on the podium. Not only that, I have a vested interest in seeing as many Teen Challenge drivers as possible in the series.

 

That being said though, It is incredibly frustrating to think that all our hard work and money put into winning a series, can be destroyed by the antics of others. I don't know if they care or realize the destruction it causes to the aspirations of good kids trying to make their way in this incredibly tough business. I have complete faith though that both organizations are capable of recognizing when something is askew and will take that into consideration when making judgments on the performance of others.

 

To all, a quick digression; Our car was involved in a racing incident that put the driver in the hospital with a concussion Saturday. I want to thank the great staff at NASA for their professional treatment in arranging an examination by their on track medical staff and for their stance on safety equipment. I also want to thank all of the SOCAL NASA SM competitors. They helped us so much in getting the car back together and ready to race on Sunday even though we didn't know if my son would be cleared to race the next day . Especially to John Mueller who offered so much in the way parts, advice, and concern.Thank you NASA, thank you drivers, and thank you John!  Also to Peter at Autotechknic ( I am sure I am screwing up his company name) , he leveraged his track contacts and helped us tirelessly in getting the car back and never asked for anything in return. I owe him a 12 pack. Thanks all.

[JRHille]

So would there still be a 6 month suspension if you refused teardown because you didn't want to take the car apart and just admitted it wasn't legal? or just skip tech and take a dq? Discouraging that this happens, but also discouraging to know that they could have just skipped tech to avoid the 6 month suspension and take a DQ.  Clearly something wasn't legal. Not willing to wait for the 800 some page gcr to load on my ancient PC to check the rules. 

 

Sucks that this happens in such a competitive class, but I guess that's what you get with such tough competition. What I don't understand is how people get any satisfaction out of the racing if they know they have a clear and obvious advantage.  Maybe he/she convinced him/herself that's what everyone does.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

How many teens would even have he mechanical ability to get 131hp out of a 1.6?

The real question here is how many classy moms and dads are out there providing their empressionable kids with blatant cheated cars. What a fine example that sets for a youngster!!!!

Better to tell your poor kid you don't believe he has the talent then to prove it to him or her by giving them a cheated up car.

[Bench Racer]

 

i just cannot figure out what satifaction is gained by knowingly racing a cheated up car(in any class), and why people make the effort in time and $ to attempt this.

IIRC folks were DEEP in the gray area with the timming and fuel pressure on th 99+ before the rules were changed to make those two items legal.
  

Start another thread or add to the 1000 others started please..

Are you implyng any of those thousand were started by me? This seemed like an appropriate thread to throw out the comment for discussion. Please e-mail me a horsepower with torque graph showing the same numbers you list in your motors for sale adds for a 99. I'll do an overlay using my 1.6 numbers on the 99 you e-mail. If your 99 numbers prove that I'm talking out of my a _ _ you will never see a similar post.

Forget about this stuff and have a good run at COTA.

[Charlie Hayes]

How many teens would even have he mechanical ability to get 131hp out of a 1.6?
The real question here is how many classy moms and dads are out there providing their empressionable kids with blatant cheated cars. What a fine example that sets for a youngster!!!!
Better to tell your poor kid you don't believe he has the talent then to prove it to him or her by giving them a cheated up car.

Getting the power isn't the hard part, being able to live with yourself knowing your blatantly non-compliant is that hard part.

[Jim Boemler]

 

 

Better to tell your poor kid you don't believe he has the talent then to prove it to him or her by giving them a cheated up car.

 

 

Well put!

[Muda]

Getting the power isn't the hard part, being able to live with yourself knowing your blatantly non-compliant is that hard part.

Ha!  These guys have such poor mental hygiene they don't even think about it.  "Everybody cheats" so therefore it's OK, right?  I'd bet that 30+% of the cars I race with are cheated up.  Good thing most of them are too cheap & lazy to learn how to drive.

[Jim Drago]

 IIRC folks were DEEP in the gray area with the timming and fuel pressure on th 99+ before the rules were changed to make those two items legal.
  Are you implyng any of those thousand were started by me? This seemed like an appropriate thread to throw out the comment for discussion. Please e-mail me a horsepower with torque graph showing the same numbers you list in your motors for sale adds for a 99. I'll do an overlay using my 1.6 numbers on the 99 you e-mail. If your 99 numbers prove that I'm talking out of my a _ _ you will never see a similar post.

Forget about this stuff and have a good run at COTA.

I'm bored before I leave .. so why not 

 

Key words above..  "your 99" and "my 1.6"  

I am not claiming your motor is anything?  A better comparison would be our best 1.6 and our best 99. 

But no one is debating that the 1.6 makes less TQ than a 99, HP is debatable. That is why it weighs 100 lbs less. 

 

If you are debating points that have already been conceded... what are we talking about here? 

I even got to use all my new favorites

[Jim Creighton]

Kyle hit it on the head.

 

A young driver who has his father prepping the car may end be the victim of misguided intentions. As many of you know, I work for a short track race series that has for many years been the starting point for many of todays NASCAR stars. We've been the first stop for drivers such as Matt Kenseth, Joey Logano, Regan Smith, Trevor Bayne and about 1/3 of the current Nationwide drivers and 1/2 the Truck series drivers. The one thing I have never seen is for one of the "headed to the top" fathers to "cheat up" the sons car. The simple reason is that the stigma can stay with the driver for an entire career. Just think back to the big fuss when Joey Logano's father, Tom, tried to get Joey to fight with Carl Edwards. Knowing Joey well, I can tell you this is so far out of character that it was funny. Joey is closer to being a computer geek than a fighter. But he can drive the wheels off a stock car. PS--He loves road racing and used to talk my arm off about SCCA racing. And he came within 100 yards of winning his very first NASCAR road race when the engine let go.

 

So, if you are a dad reading this who has a child racing or getting ready to race, don't even be tempted to go outside the rules. It's the one thing you can do that will destroy a career. Believe in your child's talent. And if you do and are protested, you should consider it a compliment.

 

[LarryKing]

I am deeply offended by this blatant display of violence toward poor defenseless horses. Be glad it's not a moose or I'd really be steamed.

[Bench Racer]

 

I am deeply offended by this blatant display of violence toward poor defenseless horses. Be glad it's not a moose or I'd really be steamed.

The horse is really a 1.6er. The beater is really a 99er. Notice how the 1.6er continues to allow the beating.