563 replies to this topic

[Caveman-kwebb99]

[steveracer]

here is a hypothetical...


We could start with pulling the plates completely on the NA 1.8, have that be the standard at XXXX weight

Then we could allow the 1.6 to bore .040 over, up the compression to 10:1 and add a header, add 1.8 brakes also at XXXX weight

Then have 99/05 at xxxx weight with whatever plate necessary..

When all is said and done, all 1.6 owners would have to buy new engines,headers and brakes. After three more seasons of tweaks and parity debates,angry 1.6 owners who just spent a lot of $$, we would find ourselves where are now, VERY CLOSE.



Or we could just leave things as they are and adjust with plates and weights if and when needed.

I'd be game for that. Might as well add the suspension too.

 

If we somehow give the 1.6 equal torque do we get to require they switch to the inferior and heavier Torsen diff?

With the above mods, I'd expect the smaller diff's to die pretty quickly anyway.

[Kyle Freiheit]

Like I said, I am for the 1.8 swap and maybe the suspension bits because that makes the cars very close. Splitting the class would make some 1.6 guys happy but kill the class, not overnight but slowly over years. 

 

I said it in an earlier post, mandate the 4.1 gear on all 1.8L cars and you will negate some of the torque benefit at any given speed and all of the cars will be shifting at similar points on the track. 

 

Kyle

[pat slattery]

It can be a simple fix for the 1.6, just more torque, and if need be do some weight or plate adjustments.  

[pat slattery]

 

 

Kyle,  CHARBS you are not.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I am just myself... if I was trying to be charb, nobody can be charb but charb. I do try hard to drive as good as him but since I can't hang with Jim I know I falling short on that one.

[Jim Drago]

Just so we are on the same page.. please watch the video below or the other two segments, just point to a minute marker on the video so that we can understand the problem. Just for reference.. My car is in this race ( runoffs P1) Berry is the black car (Runoffs P2), Sandlin is in the red car( runoffs P3 most of the race and generally accepted the fastest 99 in the country 2 years running)The other white 99 is a car we did a few years ago for Freedom, Tom Long driving.

Save the commentary, just point to minute markers so we can all disect the issues.
Pay to attention to the uphill sections up the front straight where the 1.6 is supposed to be weak. Disregard all the hand signals, no one knows what they mean

[JRHille]

That is one good 1.6...

[Jim Drago]

That is one good 1.6...

So were the 99's

[David L]

I think Jim just ended it. 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

yeah right wait if we are lucky t will end till after runnoffs wen a 99 wins again...

 

the 01 guys will point to that as reason to not change anything, the 99 guy will be happy and the 1.6 guys will cry in their beer.

 

the 94 guys will have a group hug since there are only like 10 of them nation wide.

 

Then the arrc will come and dependnt on who comes with their 01 the debate will start over and run hot and heavy for a at least a month

[Cnj]

I think Jim just ended it. 

I would like to think that a video of top drivers driving top prep cars (both NA and NB) on a track that is reputedly biased to NB's - and showing parity - would substantially put the parity debate to bed. But I seriously doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

CNJ

[Bench Racer]

I think Jim just ended it. 

 

That sure does prove that the 1.6 torque is equal to the 99 plus torque below 5,500 rpm.

[Rob Burgoon]

Does uphill really matter unless you've fallen out of the powerband and get stuck there?  I'd guess it would be the slow corners.

[Jim Drago]

That sure does prove that the 1.6 torque is equal to the 99 plus torque below 5,500 rpm.

See exit turn five 4500 +/-
For the record, no one ever said equal.

[38bfast]

It's a 1.8 with a 1.6 dash in it.

[pat slattery]

The dyno  sheet that Jim provided (thank you Jim) of Todd Buras's 1.6 is I think that everyone in the know will agree that car is hands down the top 1.6 in the country. So we are looking at a car that is the overdog of all 1.6 cars IMHO.  Does any other 1.6 owner out there get more than 110.9 torque on a dynojet  with SAE correction factor.

[Cnj]

The dyno  sheet that Jim provided (thank you Jim) of Todd Buras's 1.6 is I think that everyone in the know will agree that car is hands down the top 1.6 in the country. So we are looking at a car that is the overdog of all 1.6 cars IMHO.  Does any other 1.6 owner out there get more than 110.9 torque on a dynojet  with SAE correction factor.

Pat, this may or may not be correct. I simply don't know. I assume you are not suggesting illegality therefore its achievable. Yes?

On the other hand I can say with confidence that many consider the three Drago 99's overdogs as well. The point here is that all of the cars in the video were preped to the nth degree and driven by top drivers. And show parity - at least in this video. To suggest that this one car is a special 1.6 and should be left out of the discussion is a specious argument.

CNJ.

[Bruce Wilson]

... Disregard all the hand signals, no one knows what they mean
 

 

Miatacage.com sells some really good radios Jim

[Bench Racer]

The dyno  sheet that Jim provided (thank you Jim) of Todd Buras's 1.6 is I think that everyone in the know will agree that car is hands down the top 1.6 in the country.

So we are looking at a car that is the overdog of all 1.6 cars IMHO.  

Does any other 1.6 owner out there get more than 110.9 torque on a dynojet  with SAE correction factor.

Pat, your point one, we don't have a clue about the numbers of the left coast 1.6's. They don't openly share their numbers as did Steyn and then Drago.

 

Your point two, we are watching a pro driver in a 1.6.

 

I get 108.4 on a DynoPack and my horsepower is good. BUT, my 1.6 still dosen't have torque equal to the 99's below 5,500 rpm. As long as anybody wants to use the "P" word, I'll keep reminding them what the 1.6 does not have under 5,500 rpm. As they all say the 1.6 ain't going to make it up with handling, unless they have a Pro driver.

 

 

 And show parity - at least in this video.

 

To suggest that this one car is a special 1.6 and should be left out of the discussion is a specious argument.

CNJ.

Some places I sholdn't go but, ow well.

 

The 1st part of the video the 99's could pass the 1.6 at will. Buras passed Berry after Drago softened up Berry and Berry wisely gave Buras T12. An observation, nothing more nothing less.

 

 

Bruce Wilson, care to share your 1.6 numbers?