563 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Jim,all I can say is that is one fast 1.6 ! Don't get me wrong he can drive and the car setup is awesome, but that car is a rocket. Look at the video at 7:30 ish. He crosses up not once not twice but three times and never looses a car length. And their was some help out of alot of corners from behind.Not disagreeing or arguing with anyone just pointing some things out.

 

Bob

Your making my point . It is fast

Jim

[pat slattery]

The carousel is one of the corners where the 1.6 is stronger than the 99. The Mazda comp diff is superior to the Torsen in these types of turns as cars load up so heavily on the outside wheels. Long high g turns favor the 1.6 eve more than tight twisty turns.

The carousel all the way to turn 12 was our part of the track to gain ground.  Not sure about the rear end but going slightly down hill I always thought was the reason

[MPR22]

The carousel all the way to turn 12 was our part of the track to gain ground.  Not sure about the rear end but going slightly down hill I always thought was the reason

Yep, you carry all the extra speed into your sweet spot down to Canada.

[Bench Racer]

The carousel all the way to turn 12 was our part of the track to gain ground.  Not sure about the rear end but going slightly down hill I always thought was the reason

Pat, I shouldn't comment on this ^ because someone suggested they were tired of reading this thread. Oh well......

 

Down hill adds parity to the 1.6.

 

Butch, ya been laying low and being a lurker. It's great to see yer back.

[Tom Sager]

OK, it's time to get serious on this subject and frankly I'm tired of the gamesmanship that SCCA and it's boards and committees are using to squeeze out the "little guy" from the class.  It's no secret that the front runners want an NB spec class and want fewer cars on the track.   Let me give you all a little view into what is going on and a little history to prove my point.  Back in the 90's when the Neon was king in Showroom Stock C, the club wanted to kill the class.  They did so by letting faster cars dominate and chased all the Neon drivers away.  There were hundreds of Neons racing around the country.  Where did they all go?  Just look at the video.  They have been relegated to tandem chain racing.  That's right, 2 cars chained together racing other teams of chained together cars.  The front car has an engine and no brakes.  The rear car has brakes and no engine.  They race on a figure 8 track and when the Neon's are all gone, they will be replaced with displaced NA Spec Miatas.  This is the master plan.  Watch the video.  You wonder why obvious requests for rules adjustments are ignored?  Take a look.  The future for the NA cars is scary.    

 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I think this would a nice style in our 99's... I can se it now Drago with Gorilla in chains right behind him!  DANNY BOY with charbs as his brake bitch. 

 

We been talking about all this team racing, Sager just shed some light on it! 

[LarryKing]

Only in America

 

The future for the NA cars is scary.  

 

I think Mr. Sager just solved the parity issue. All 1.6 cars get to bring their own bump-drafter (chained to their bumpers)

 

Brilliant!!!

[Rob Burgoon]

Train races are awesome.  I have no problem with this.

[Bench Racer]

OK, it's time to get serious on this subject and frankly I'm tired of the gamesmanship that SCCA and it's boards and committees are using to squeeze out the "little guy" from the class.

Example:

 

GTL

1. #12068 (Club Racing Board) Consolidation Process for GTL In 2012 the Club Racing Board (CRB) was given direction by the Board of Directors (BOD) to actively manage classes. That direction led to the consolidation of the Touring classes and the incorporation of STO into GT2 in 2013. For 2014, CSR, DSR and Sports 2000 will be consolidated into two classes P1 and P2.

In an effort to strengthen GT racing, the Club Racing Board has determined that the next class to be consolidated is GTL. The CRB is recommending a multi-step process that will fairly classify the existing (cars with log books issued prior to January 1, 2014) GTL cars into GT3, FP and HP. GTL will remain a Majors and Runoffs eligible for 2014 and will be eliminated in 2015. Current GTL cars may begin to run in GT3 or the appropriate Production classes starting on January 1, 2014.

 

The current CRB proposal is as follows:

1. Reduce the speed potential of the current GT3 cars approximately 3 seconds a lap. This change will allow current 1.6-2.0 liter GTL cars to be unrestricted and move to GT3.

2. The remaining 1.2-1.5 liter GTL cars will be moved to FP with a weight penalty for tube frame chassis. This allowance will only be for existing GTL cars. No new tube frame cars can be built for FP.

 

This is nothing new, these same  SCCA boards and committees did the exact same thing to G production.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

And the BOD and committees need to do more, I cant beleive how many times I hve been at a major this year to see one guy or two guys standing on the podium...  while they all should be allowed to race, help them actually have a race with someone else in their class! I know its the modern day montra that everyone is a WINNER, but SCCA and NASA both have taken that way to far...

[Bruce Wilson]

And the BOD and committees need to do more, I cant beleive how many times I hve been at a major this year to see one guy or two guys standing on the podium...  while they all should be allowed to race, help them actually have a race with someone else in their class! I know its the modern day montra that everyone is a WINNER, but SCCA and NASA both have taken that way to far...

 

Meanwhile there are a BUNCH of spec E30/Pro3 cars that really don't have a competitive place to race in SCCA.

[LarryKing]

while they all should be allowed to race, help them actually have a race with someone else in their class! I know its the modern day montra that everyone is a WINNER, but SCCA and NASA both have taken that way to far...

 

If there are only one or two cars in a particular class that enter what can the SCCA or NASA do about that other then eliminate/consolidate low-number classes?

 

 Meanwhile there are a BUNCH of spec E30/Pro3 cars that really don't have a competitive place to race in SCCA.

 

How is a NASA only class the SCCA's problem?

 

 

Mantra.

[LarryKing]

You know, what the SCCA and NASA needs is a low-cost, entry-level, spec series where all the cars are identical.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

If there are only one or two cars in a particular class that enter what can the SCCA or NASA do about that other then eliminate/consolidate low-number classes?

 

 

 

 

Mantra.

 

 

which is what I advoacted for, they could do it faster IMO, but they are doing it...

[LarryKing]

So... FA has only one or two cars show up, it's probably because they are so damn expensive to race.

 

Does that happen to SM?

 

If we eventually need a $50 K car to be competitive will that thin the number of entrants?

 

Believe me, the old "you can still go out and have fun" doesn't sustain a class.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

moose Ocho, we already need a 35k car to be competitve... has it thinned the ranks??? probably some, will it thin further when it goes to 45K most likely, will SM one day be like GTL in attendance numbers or some of the other classes, it certainly will... I hope to be retired from racing befroe that, if i am not that will lead to my retirement form club racing.  At this time I have no aspirations to move to any other class, I do partake in STL mainly for extra track time, but at least I have 7-10 cars in that class to race with at any given track... 

 

Do I wish we could control costs Hell yeah!!!!! I wish I could control costs at my biz more then the racing though...

 

I dont find that racing hasnt  gotten any more expensive for me since year 1, I find i am spending less at it each year and gettign better results though. Knowing what I absolutly must have to be competitve helps alot... I am racing at less events this year then any prior year but since I ma now doubling my seat time at each weekend, I am having rapid improvemts and incurring little more then extra fuel expense and entry fees, most of which I have gotten back in contingencies from some of our SCCA partners!!!

 

Thank you Mazda and Hoosier for all you do for us racers!!!!!

[Jim Drago]

Example:
 
GTL

1. #12068 (Club Racing Board) Consolidation Process for GTL In 2012 the Club Racing Board (CRB) was given direction by the Board of Directors (BOD) to actively manage classes. That direction led to the consolidation of the Touring classes and the incorporation of STO into GT2 in 2013. For 2014, CSR, DSR and Sports 2000 will be consolidated into two classes P1 and P2.

In an effort to strengthen GT racing, the Club Racing Board has determined that the next class to be consolidated is GTL. The CRB is recommending a multi-step process that will fairly classify the existing (cars with log books issued prior to January 1, 2014) GTL cars into GT3, FP and HP. GTL will remain a Majors and Runoffs eligible for 2014 and will be eliminated in 2015. Current GTL cars may begin to run in GT3 or the appropriate Production classes starting on January 1, 2014.
 
The current CRB proposal is as follows:

1. Reduce the speed potential of the current GT3 cars approximately 3 seconds a lap. This change will allow current 1.6-2.0 liter GTL cars to be unrestricted and move to GT3.

2. The remaining 1.2-1.5 liter GTL cars will be moved to FP with a weight penalty for tube frame chassis. This allowance will only be for existing GTL cars. No new tube frame cars can be built for FP.
 
This is nothing new, these same  SCCA boards and committees did the exact same thing to G production.

No one likes there class going away, but yet we all cry we have too many classes. The BOD has tasked us to consolidate classes and reduce the overall amount of classes we have. Look at the GTL participation numbers and let me know if you would have started elsewhere?

As far as G production? Look at the health of production before G production was merged. Production is one of the healthiest parts of the club after SM, SRF.

SM isn't doing too bad either

[Jim Drago]

moose Ocho, we already need a 35k car to be competitve... has it thinned the ranks??? probably some, will it thin further when it goes to 45K most likely

Try buying a turn key SM from one of the Northeastern shops.. Most are above 50k now

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Try buying a turn key SM from one of the Northeastern shops.. Most are above 50k now

 

 

I cant even afford a 35k

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Try buying a turn key SM from one of the Northeastern shops.. Most are above 50k now

 

But last I checked a southern BBQ 35k car competes FAVORABLY against a 50k yankee car