535 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

Just for the record since you're right in the middle of this.

You own a SM, you have a current lic, and you raced this year and will race next year ??

Just asking.
J~

Fair questions, although not necessarily relevant to the accuracy or value of my input.

I and my bother own several SM's, another chassis waiting to be built, and several other race cars. I've worked on race cars on & off since the 70s. We do all our own work other than machine shop stuff, and own a chassis dyno, Whistler and other tools of the trade. We have not raced in several years, reasons being complex and personal, but it would be fair to say we were pilots of two of the three fastest 1.6s in the region for several years. During that time I was often criticized for my "negative" posts about pro engines, shocks, etc. while we struggled to compete within both the letter and spirit of the rules. Eventually I tore down several engines and posted a series of "exposés" on what the cheater pro-builders were doing. I also worked behind the scenes to get tech to start testing shock valving and inspect other suspension parts. In short, I put a lot of time, effort, money and reputation into an effort to help clean up this class while also giving the average guy more DIY information.

As it happens, we are trying to get back to racing next season, but even if we don't succeed, I feel I have skin in this.

[pat slattery]

Just saying, making the statement to be clear, correct me if I'm wrong...

 

The rules are set based on a top driver, with very little devopement needed and a top car from each, NA, NB, etc with no developement needed.

Basicly "maxed out"

 

Because if you and/or your car needs development and the rules changed to your favor and then you get the devolpment, you may be ahead.

 

Just something to think about.

J~

Johnny I believe that happened a few years  ago when the 99 cars were introduced to the class.  Just saying

[pat slattery]

I know I kept waiting for the newer cars to be brought back to the 1.6, now I hear everyone saying that the 99 is the cars which all others should be adjusted.  I will spend money on my 1.6 to get better, I just don't have the budget to get a new car.  We need more help on the low rpm range, and also the car is hard to keep running at peak tuning  since we only have the OBD1, and have  the AFM's to deal with.

 

Anyone have any data on fuel management for a 1.6?

 

Like I mentioned before, running at Michigan Int. Speedway we have an extremely sharp turn to enter the straight.  4200 rpm in second gear.  try to keep from loosing 5-10 car length's coming off that turn and you will never want to come back.  Better yet have the track change how sharp that turn is. 

[Johnny D]

Johnny I believe that happened a few years  ago when the 99 cars were introduced to the class.  Just saying

 

Your car and driver are "maxed out" top prepped, huh ??

 

You'd rather deal with all that then sell yours and atleast get a 1.8 ?

 

Whatever you guys think.

J~

[Greg P]

Ran SM2 all year and dbl classed with SM. Best of both! This was my 1st season so I might not be the bench mark for the 1.6 crowd but the Glen was the only place I felt like I couldn't keep up. Make sm2 a national class, give the 1.6 a flywheel and let anyone that wants to take their 1.6 and run with the big boys let them have at it. I don't feel that the large fields would be affected at all in sm and I think it would pull a lot more 1.6's out of the garage. Just my 2cents

[LarryKing]

 

Why isn't racing seen as a fit man's sport, or better asked, why are we not rewarding the really fit guys?

 

Not trying to be rude, not calling anyone fat, however several of our national SM champions don't look like they missed too many meals. Are you saying we should give the skinny guys some help so they can keep up?  (I'm glad that you enjoy running even when no one is chasing you.  )

 

 

most drivers in the 1.6 camp are regional racers and don't really care about racing Nationals.

 

Probably true. The problem is, in my division at least, the same guys who run Majors show up at the regional events too, stinking up the show.

 

 

You'd rather deal with all that then sell yours and at least get a 1.8 ?

 

Why should this be the only choice for 1.6 drivers?

 

And why do the NB drivers have so much animosity toward NA drivers? Lately I've read a lot of "1.6 drivers always say this..." and "1.6 drivers won't agree to that..." and "1.6 driver shouldn't expect to..."

 

1.6 drivers have been getting the shiz end of the deal for years - Man, talk about rubbing salt in the wounds.

[High Chair]

2015 rules

 

Let the 90-97 cars run in their own class along side the other Miatas

 

No plates on the other cars and use weight for parity.

[MPR22]

Please stop asking for a lighter flywheel. It will have a marginal effect in 2nd gear, less in 3rd, zip in 4th, and still less anytime you are climbing even a small hill. No matter how cheap it is, it would be nothing more than an ineffective pacifier at many tracks and reduce any slim chance of meaningful changes.

I threw in the lighter flywheel because I knew it would be agrees to by most 1.6 owners.

The real ticket is a 10.5-1 compression ratio, which I also advocated. I left out the number but to allow for some arguing what the correct value should be. Probably have to put a small restrictor on it to keep it from being too stout at the top.

Will be happy to mill a head, dyno it and share the reaults.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Your car and driver are "maxed out" top prepped, huh ??

 

You'd rather deal with all that then sell yours and atleast get a 1.8 ?

 

Whatever you guys think.

J~

 

You couldnt possibly know this beinf from the left coast, but Pat's driver is as good as they come in the driving dept!  Now the car needs some help $$$ funding not extra rules modifications.  He bought a new motor not to long ago but it only runs real good for the first 5 laps of a 13 lap race. Pat maybe a $600 radiator would fix many of your issues   

[Jim Drago]

Here ya go, how about this...

IT rules for 1.6
Basically .040 over, add .5 compression, port matching 1 in in on intake and head. ( probably do away with port matching portion)

94/97 cars get 47 mm plate/ no other changes

99/00 no change

01/05 +35 lbs


This will speed up the 1.6, give it some more grunt and no effect the rest of the cars. Nor will it slow anyone else down. If it becomes a problem, we can add weight to it or reduce weight on all the rest.

[FTodaro]

Here ya go, how about this...

IT rules for 1.6
Basically .040 over, add .5 compression, port matching 1 in in on intake and head. ( probably do away with port matching portion)

94/97 cars get 47 mm plate/ no other changes

99/00 no change

01/05 +35 lbs


This will speed up the 1.6, give it some more grunt and no effect the rest of the cars. Nor will it slow anyone else down. If it becomes a problem, we can add weight to it or reduce weight on all the rest.

I could agree with everything you said except the 35 lbs. on the 01, If i am going to put my hand in a hat and pull out a number mine would be 20Lbs. what is two ft lbs of Tq with two less hp worth?

[steveracer]

Here ya go, how about this...

IT rules for 1.6
Basically .040 over, add .5 compression, port matching 1 in in on intake and head. ( probably do away with port matching portion)

94/97 cars get 47 mm plate/ no other changes

99/00 no change

01/05 +35 lbs


This will speed up the 1.6, give it some more grunt and no effect the rest of the cars. Nor will it slow anyone else down. If it becomes a problem, we can add weight to it or reduce weight on all the rest.

I just freshened my motor, but I would agree to this!

[jguthrie]

+1 on Jims comment

[James York]

Here ya go, how about this...

IT rules for 1.6
Basically .040 over, add .5 compression, port matching 1 in in on intake and head. ( probably do away with port matching portion)

94/97 cars get 47 mm plate/ no other changes

99/00 no change

01/05 +35 lbs


This will speed up the 1.6, give it some more grunt and no effect the rest of the cars. Nor will it slow anyone else down. If it becomes a problem, we can add weight to it or reduce weight on all the rest.

 

If we are benchmarking to the 99/00 (the no change car), wouldn't you think a tiny bit larger RP  along with the added weight to neutralize TQ on the 01/05 would be in order?  (like the 94/97 help)  If I remember your dyno plots, the 99/00 have a nice HP advantage over 6K.

 

I like your suggestions overall.

[Waterboy]

Here ya go, how about this...

IT rules for 1.6
Basically .040 over, add .5 compression, port matching 1 in in on intake and head. ( probably do away with port matching portion)

94/97 cars get 47 mm plate/ no other changes

99/00 no change

01/05 +35 lbs


This will speed up the 1.6, give it some more grunt and no effect the rest of the cars. Nor will it slow anyone else down. If it becomes a problem, we can add weight to it or reduce weight on all the rest.

 You're trying to get your build for the 2015 runoffs going, aren't you

[LarryKing]

 

Basically .040 over, add .5 compression, port matching 1 in in on intake and head. ( probably do away with port matching portion)

 

Works for me

[Steve Scheifler]

I don't recall any +.040 OEM pistons so an aftermarket part would need to be specified, assuming they are available. One issue we ran into before the OEM parts rule is that even the standard bore pistons we looked at had a lowered deck height to keep compression down after head & block milling. But I have not looked at the aftermarket in years.

[pat slattery]

You couldnt possibly know this beinf from the left coast, but Pat's driver is as good as they come in the driving dept!  Now the car needs some help $$$ funding not extra rules modifications.  He bought a new motor not to long ago but it only runs real good for the first 5 laps of a 13 lap race. Pat maybe a $600 radiator would fix many of your issues   

I can always use extra funding Kyle.    I do have a springfield dyno radiator, which normally does a great job.  I believe the issues that last time out was an air pocket in the cooling system, and hopefully has been resolved.  Thanks for the kind words regarding Shawns driving

[FTodaro]

If we are benchmarking to the 99/00 (the no change car), wouldn't you think a tiny bit larger RP  along with the added weight to neutralize TQ on the 01/05 would be in order?  (like the 94/97 help)  If I remember your dyno plots, the 99/00 have a nice HP advantage over 6K.

 

I like your suggestion overall.

Agree the 99 has the 01 in the top end department, generally +2 on HP. so if we add weight to off set the TQ how do you adjuster for the top end issue, I would agree with a one mm bigger hole depending on the weight.

 

 

Guthrie you don't need any help, you got Kyle to be your pusher.

[Tom OPM]

With the Run-Offs going to Daytona the 01 really does not need to be penalized, the track will do that. If you add weight the plate needs to change also. Other than MRLS where has the car done well? The compression issue seems to be fixed the cars will seem more normal.

 

Jims 1.6 ideas look good but the 1.6 group will complain about having to spend money. We have gone thru this before. The 1.6 needs something but hard to say what. Remember the KK car is not gone and will come back if we go too far.