390 replies to this topic

[Ron Alan]

Hmmm...5 days off from the forum...where do I begin??

 

Dave D...by no means am I an expert on anything about Miatas. Shade tree mechanic would be a stretch(though i can take them apart ) and yes i've sold a few 6 speeds...but all i can tell you is the first couple years were junk(99/00) and those looking always want the later versions! And after these people(street cars mostly) buy the 6 speeds and the different rear end(3.9 ratio) most do not like driving them!

 

Brandon...thanks for volunteering for what is a thankless job (and the rest of you by the way as well!)

 

Bruce W...dont be a stranger! Your knowledge and those in your area should never be silenced. You guys are what it took to right the ship! Stay on board! I for one miss the NW coming down! Racing is as only good as the competition!

 

Denny...wasnt the weight of a 1.6 car around 2275 when you started in SM?(I really have no idea when you started but I think you have been on here longer than me?) You picked the car knowing the rules? Those guys who complain about making weight are probably the same guys who always bitch about not getting a clean qualifying lap! I say figure it out and stop bitching about one of the few things in SM YOU CAN control 

 

Matt(Topgear3793)...Mark pretty much said everything I would have said! You cant cherry pick...anyone with knowledge of these cars knows the differences...the strength and weaknesses! I saw 4 cars this weekend(1.6,1,8na, 99, and 01) dominate. I saw one car with arguably the best driver at Sonoma(great car)lap after lap just slowly walk away. Then i saw 3 young talented drivers...with pretty dam equal cars(all different)have 2 incredible races! It was clean and respectful driving with position changes back and forth and no contact! I'm not sure what more you can ask for? There were about 15 1.6 cars out there this weekend that should envy the power you have in your car...in fact you are embarrassing the 1.6 class. But I see no problem with it because there have been many before you

Impressions can be made, earned or changed...i wish i still had youth on my side

 

Dave W...I like your list and cannot disagree with any of it...rock solid. BUT...just to give hope to all those aspiring young an old podium finishers...work on your driving FIRST! There is 1 common thing among any top 5 finisher in any regional or majors race...they are great drivers! That cant be said about the quality or equality of the cars that got them there! 

[Ron Alan]

Unlisted video so only those with the link can view it. Assuming the same corner exit speed, a car in front will be traveling slightly faster than the one behind, and cause the gap to stretch on acceleration and shrink under braking (we all know this). That being said, I didn't experience much of that last weekend as you will see in the video. I witnessed this every lap and it was quite frustrating to say the least, so grumpy me took to the forums, and I apologize for my short and unjustified statement, but hopefully the video will address my perspective, especially the last of the three clips. The same situation could be seen between T4-T5 and T6-T7 whenever there is a shift or low rpm zone, just reinforcing what we already know is the problem, torque.

 

For reference, my car makes good but not unusual numbers (usually 117/104, although this past weekend we saw 119/105 on an agreeably high reading dyno).

 

As myself and many others have stated before, this is a track dependent issue... the car set a track record at Buttonwillow the weekend before and was fully capable of winning a race there.

 

In response to your final judgmental and insulting statement, proving you don't know anything about me as a person, I am happy to switch cars with you next month at the NASA Championships

 

Ok...I watched this a half dozen times now and very informative! But not about any parity differences( I see very little), Sometimes what you think you see is nothing close to what is really happening   

[LarryKing]

 

Denny...wasnt the weight of a 1.6 car around 2275 when you started in SM? You picked the car knowing the rules?

 

Ron, I started in 2002. Weight the first year was 2255, which for someone 6'1", 210 lbs was very optimistic. Note: car choices then were NA 1.6 and NA 1.8. The NB car was not classed until 2006. Also note that only one door bar per side was required. In 2003 the 1.6 weight was raised to 2275, which I could meet until I added additional door bars and bracing, Petty bar and bars extending to the front wheelwells. Rules were still rooted in Showroom Stock. Historic note: The first year the stock airbox and MazdaComp exhaust were required and you could run the stock 14" wheels.

 

Also, for the first couple years after they were added the NB cars were total underdogs. (pre adjustable fuel pressure and timing - why did we need that rule change again?)

 

 

In all seriousness, not trying to debate this. But if we had an imaginary perfect solution here at least 75 % of those complaining would still complain until the 1.6 cars won 40-50% of all the races.     

 

Statistics are fun - I make them up all the time. In all seriousness has the NA 1.6 even won 5% of all Majors?

 

 

 Those guys who complain about making weight are probably the same guys who always bitch about not getting a clean qualifying lap! I say figure it out and stop bitching about one of the few things in SM YOU CAN control

 

Super-duper assumption. I have no idea what it has to do with whether the 1.6 should be classed separately. Kinda like me saying people who drive 99s probably pee in the shower.

 

PS: I not arguing for help for the 1.6. Uncle - I give - make a 1.6 regional class, I'll STFU and run my 4-5 events per year, happy as a clam.

 

Actually, I'm thinking in a year or so I'll turn my SM into a rat rod hooligan and bomb it around the streets.

[Brandon]

So after all the hot air being expended, where do we stand?  Are we any closer to getting folks with 1.6s to write letters?  What will those letters include?

 

Let's see how much howling I get with this suggestion: why don't the 99+s start writing letters to slow themselves down?

[Jamz14]

Matt, I have to agree with Ron about the video. Everything I see is related to racing lines and how the car is being navigated off the corner. Not saying you are wrong about the torque, just that thus video doesn't demonstrate it to me. Have you driven a 99 in competition yet? If not, it is possible that you are doing so well in the 1.6 precisely because its characteristics suit your style. You may not like the trade offs for that torque.

[Bench Racer]

You may not like the trade offs for that WEIGHT.

James know you don't need help, but I'd take the torque everyday of the week.

[Blake Thompson]

 

Denny...wasnt the weight of a 1.6 car around 2275 when you started in SM?(I really have no idea when you started but I think you have been on here longer than me?) You picked the car knowing the rules? Those guys who complain about making weight are probably the same guys who always bitch about not getting a clean qualifying lap! I say figure it out and stop bitching about one of the few things in SM YOU CAN control 

 

 

Torsen  and FPR were added later,  That's gotta be 30 lbs alone.

[Jim Drago]

So after all the hot air being expended, where do we stand?  Are we any closer to getting folks with 1.6s to write letters?  What will those letters include?
 
Let's see how much howling I get with this suggestion: why don't the 99+s start writing letters to slow themselves down?

where is the when hell freezes over icons.

playing devils advocate...
I run pretty much exclusively the majors.. 99% of the cars we see and race against are 99 up cars.. The parity and competition is excellent. Do we really need to upset the apple cart for less than 1% of the guys we run with in the majors? The only way I see more participation at that level in 1.6 cars is if you make it enough of an over dog that guys like myself and other front runners build them and win in them, although this philosophy did nothing to silence the critics in 2012 when we did just that.  
Perhaps a regional only SM2 class sounds like a solution? Allow the NA cars in the majors, but stop adjusting the cars any further as it seems to be a losing battle and a battle that very few seem interested in even fighting anymore. The 99 up cars have been in the class now for 11 years and we are still talking about when they came in etc. Like it or not, the MX5 will be coming in at some point, probably sooner than we would all like to see it. It may be time to just let it die a natural death
I was bored this morning and needed a little excitement

[LarryKing]

 

in 2012 when we did just that.

 

Jim, Did you build a 1.6 in 2012 and win with it? I'm asking because I don't remember that. What tracks/events?

[Blake Thompson]

Did you guys know I was the fastest NA6 at the sprints.  

[stephanieandersen]

Did you guys know I was the fastest NA6 at the sprints.  

In 19th place after DQ's. 

[Parity]

78% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[FTodaro]

where is the when hell freezes over icons.

playing devils advocate...
I run pretty much exclusively the majors.. 99% of the cars we see and race against are 99 up cars.. The parity and competition is excellent. Do we really need to upset the apple cart for less than 1% of the guys we run with in the majors? The only way I see more participation at that level in 1.6 cars is if you make it enough of an over dog that guys like myself and other front runners build them and win in them, although this philosophy did nothing to silence the critics in 2012 when we did just that.  
Perhaps a regional only SM2 class sounds like a solution? Allow the NA cars in the majors, but stop adjusting the cars any further as it seems to be a losing battle and a battle that very few seem interested in even fighting anymore. The 99 up cars have been in the class now for 11 years and we are still talking about when they came in etc. Like it or not, the MX5 will be coming in at some point, probably sooner than we would all like to see it. It may be time to just let it die a natural death
I was bored this morning and needed a little excitement

Give yourself the instigator icon.

 

It wont be long before Sager will be reminding you that he does not view the 1.8 to be in parity either.

 

Bluntly, I do not think the task of getting the 4 platforms perfectly even, is possible, We can get them close but never perfect.

 

Hey even Murdick and Guthrie are working on building 99+ cars.

[stephanieandersen]

Here are my opinions on this topic:

 

If you make a 1.6 only class, that will leave us 1.8 NAs orphaned. The 1.8 NAs are about as equally classed to the 1.6s as they could possibly be, but still are a little bit of an underdog to the NBs.  I am a small driver (135# soaking wet) and after my cool suit and new fire system additions now have ZERO ballast in the car.  I know many guys in the 1.6s are way overweight and have no chance of making minimum. 

I've seen so many 'okay' drivers become 'somewhat decent' drivers when they've ditched their NA for an NB. They feel this is what they need to do to be competitive. NAs have to be driven 110% every lap, absolutely perfect every single corner to be really competitive at the Majors level.    Let's not forget that great drivers will be great drivers no matter what car they drive. 

I don't want a separate class, all that's going to do is make the regional classes even smaller than they already are.  Where's the fun in that? 

I would suggest that there are perhaps a few more tweaks that could be allowed for the NAs to help us out.   I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what those changes may be however. 

I know that as I choose to do more Majors races, that most likely an NB will be in my future.  However, all of the new drivers I see are buying up all your old NAs.  Lets encourage this class to stay huge and keep those fresh faces in the SM group.

 

#savethebarndoors

[Blake Thompson]

 guys in the 1.6s are way overweight 

 

Mean

[stephanieandersen]

Mean

 

What did you figure your driver weight had to be to make minimum?

[Blake Thompson]

In 19th place after DQ's. 

 

I'll take it!

[Blake Thompson]

What did you figure your driver weight had to be to make minimum?

 

like 175lbs without swiss cheesing the floor board.

[Jim Drago]

Jim, Did you build a 1.6 in 2012 and win with it? I'm asking because I don't remember that. What tracks/events

 

We went back through Buras 1.6 in 2012. I did not do original build, or drive it. I think he had 4-5 wins that year including the Sprints, but look it up as I don't know for sure and don't want to be accused of over inflating by the 1.6 mafia 

[LarryKing]

 

We went back through Buras 1.6 in 2012.

 

How's that car doing in 2015?