79 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Hey Dean,
Sorry to see that! Looks like Drago built you a good motor though!

And TOTALLY 2015 compliant and sealed!!

 

Dean,

keep racing, I think this was a mistake on the part of the Stewards. I see nothing wrong

Jim

[Ron Alan]

IMO this is a situation where the passing car (you) failed to complete the pass.  They have the right to be on the track, you were way off the racing line and had a compromised position for the next corner.  Take your lumps and come back.

Totally disagree. Not NASA...SCCA requires racing room as well. The gray car(#71?)had more track than Dean did and a front row seat of Dean in front of him. I still think the gray car pushed as he turns...because he is off then back on the brake with very little movement to the left then contact with Dean who is already at the edge of the track. 

 

Like I said, racing incident! Move on Dean. And all the others should as well. 

[Bad Rusty]

Dean,

 

If you got in any trouble (which I just can't see here), I would ask to see the video from the gray car to your inside (is that the #71 people are referencing?).  It looks to me like you left everyone room (you had none left) and the gray car contacted you (I think that is the car on your inside left, but you are well past it (his front right fender at your left rear quarter).  I'm no technical wizard with the rules, but I think that car needs to not have contact with you, including if they need to back out of if (as Marco probably wished he had now, the Brand New Car curse continues!), you were past it.

 

Did someone protest you?

[FTodaro]

you cannot tell from from the lead car video what happened. I would need to see the other incar to see from that other driver perspective. I agree from this video looks as if plenty of room but this is a one sided view and not all that good of what is happening with the trailing car. Hard to see if the pass was complete.

 

Nasa Passing rule = if you are beyond the door of the competitor you have the line and can put them two wheels in the grass. only need to leave them 2/3 of a car width.

SCCA rule = have to give racing room cannot put them in the grass

MY rule. If i have to go to the grass i will, if i have the line or not. 

My second rule rather be safe than sorry.

[john mueller]

IMO this is a situation where the passing car (you) failed to complete the pass.  They have the right to be on the track, you were way off the racing line and had a compromised position for the next corner.  Take your lumps and come back.

 

Truth is I only watched the passing car video.  I was on the other end of a similar situation where the car I was overtaking (I was at the A pillar) chopped down on on me, the only difference is I had nowhere to go.  I made the choice before braking to overtake a car that was moving way slower and paid the price.

 

Nevertheless, it's a common senesce issue for me - for which I am not a steward or race director so my opinion is just that.

• You know if you go out there on that track on that turn that your going to muck the turn up for yourself and everyone behind you.
• Meaning, your asking for contact if you go out there on that turn on the first lap, which IMO is WHY the stewards found against Dean.  

 

SoCal NASA created a first lap rule at that track specifically for that turn.  If you create contact (which Dean did on the yellow car) by forcing a low percentage pass, results would be a DQ plus race suspension pts.

[Rob Burgoon]

It should be noted that cal club has had issues over the last several years where drivers were paying officials directly.

 

One of those officials that regularly requested and took money directly from drivers was involved in the hearing.

[Bad Rusty]

Truth is I only watched the passing car video.  I was on the other end of a similar situation where the car I was overtaking (I was at the A pillar) chopped down on on me, the only difference is I had nowhere to go.  I made the choice before braking to overtake a car that was moving way slower and paid the price.

 

Nevertheless, it's a common senesce issue for me - for which I am not a steward or race director so my opinion is just that.

• You know if you go out there on that track on that turn that your going to muck the turn up for yourself and everyone behind you.
• Meaning, your asking for contact if you go out there on that turn on the first lap, which IMO is WHY the stewards found against Dean.  

 

SoCal NASA created a first lap rule at that track specifically for that turn.  If you create contact (which Dean did on the yellow car) by forcing a low percentage pass, results would be a DQ plus race suspension pts.

I don't see your analysis at all when I view it, but alas, the stewards have spoken, we're just bench racing..

[LarryKing]

Yes, Mr. Senna, you would like to add something?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=p2_NtgztLdw

[Jim Drago]

IMO this is a situation where the passing car (you) failed to complete the pass.  They have the right to be on the track

 

I disagree, pass is made at 9:08 on trailing car video.  

[Brandon]

As Mr. Rusty states, we're all just bench racing (outside of Dean's appeal) but here's my $.02:

 

The turn into the infield is problematic in that you're going from top of 5th, to hard braking and down to 2nd.  Being on the outside of such an aggressive turn is never a good spot to be in and I try to avoid that at all costs.  You might have been able to ensure your visibility of the other driver by being further 'inside' (pass the other car more closely) but I'm not certain it would have influenced the outcome of the situation.

 

You did avoid contact a few hundred feet prior (while on the banking still) but I think that's what put you into the bad position as you approached the turn.  You may not have had room to maintain your location immediately behind the silver (2nd row silver car) but I would have taken the nose-tail contact and braked a bit earlier rather than try for the outside move.

 

Now, what actually transpired on the inside of you is it appears someone didn't brake hard enough (to make the turn) or a car was already present on THEIR inside and they still couldn't make the turn and doing so turned you into an additional set of brakes which then put you sideways and causing the ruckus with everyone else (and sliding across the front of the culprit car).

 

The second video (from the driver who hadn't been there before) illustrates clearly that whoever put you sideways ended up causing them to end their weekend and outside of your poor initial decision, they too had options available which they did not consider that could have changed the outcome for everyone.

It goes without saying, we are all responsible for the decisions we make on-track (I was guilty of one in 2014 that ended both of our races that day) but in this instance, I would call it a racing incident brought about by poor decisions by two parties and the punishment imposed upon you which I feel were entirely too harsh - specifically the loss of points & probation.  

 

I would have accepted the "back of field" start on day 2 as punishment without question (for my poor decision making skills at the time) but the final outcome seems entirely out of proportion considering the video posted here.

 

I would not be waiting to file an appeal - appeal both their decision (in not identifying all parties to the incident due to lack of data - specifically note the new video) & the penalty (too severe for incident).

 

Good luck!

[Bench Racer]

Approx 118 mpr down to approx 60 mph, 40 mph just previous to incident after turn in, presume could have made next L H turn at 40 mph. My question to Dean is, was your car loose before impact by other car to your car? Others were also at 50/40 mph, split second decision, keep on racing.

[Joe Cooley]

I would definitely appeal that decision.  Especially with the second video shown.  

[FTodaro]

I did not see the second video when i posted an it would still be nice to see the sliver car vid, but what i see is going 3 wide there with that quick switch back is trouble, i guess that is why they have a local rule there, i bet that was not the first wreck in that corner.

 

Have to agree with Jim (painful) that the pass is made by 9:08 it also looks as if the trailing car washed out a car width or more at turn in and two cars were going for one spot. I have been there before, but if you completed the pass i would have to say you earned the right to be there. I would be nervous making that pass on the outside. not to say that i have not tried it, sometimes its good sometimes not.

 

This is what my good  friend Mike Novak does to his friends.

 

As you can see when two cars are going for one spot, $hit happens. believe it or not, he did not put a mark on the car,

 

this is only a half a lap long second corner.

[john mueller]

I disagree, pass is made at 9:08 on trailing car video.  

 

Upon review of trailing car video, pass looked to be completed, no attempt to deviate from the 71 was made.  Take the passing car out of the video and 71 would have to drive across the grass behind T4 to rejoin the racing surface or stop and back-up.

 

I see no issue with the passing car except possibly exercising bad judgment by attempting that pass in that corner on the first lap of the race at that track.  I've done stupid stuff in that turn and had stupid stuff happen to me in that turn...  It's the ultimate give-and-take corner in SoCal.

[MPR22]

Steve, the line that I took was to the outside right of the (black) lead car giving what I felt was plenty of room for the cars behind me to follow to the left. And there is room in T2 (actually is T4) to turn and stay right. Not a good fast line but when everyone is together at the start you can make that work.

What baffles me is why the silver car that I passed did not stay in line with the black car ahead of me, separating himself from the rest of the pack allowing Marco to move into that spot.

 

The SOM's decision:

 

Take my finishing position from that race and move me to the back. Take away all my qualifying times for the weekend, take my SCCA license and put me on probation but they did allowed me to race on Sunday from the back. 

Seriously? The 71 had plenty of room to race and leave you plenty of room. He chose to not leave you racing room.  How does the SOM hold you at fault?  

[Ron Alan]

Here is another perspective...when the still pictures come up be ready to pause the video! Another perspective from across the infield...great shot of Dean and the 71 right after the first contact. Seeing this picture and the following picture go back and watch Deans video again. Had he been able to stay on the black cars bumper(where he was at contact) he would have followed to P2 more than likely!

Short and nicely put together!

http://youtu.be/4a1ZEDmBpt4

[Steve Scheifler]

What's with the P2T button on the steering wheel RIM???

I didn't see anything helpful, did I miss it?

[Bad Rusty]

No surprises here.  71 actually at fault, cal club stewards clueless, Elliot jumping the start as usual.

Ding ding ding!!!!! I just figured it out ( Im slow in and out of the car) that that was Mr. Curtis Gong! Hi Curtis!

Funny story!


Two years ago, I'm racing my beater 1990 SM in the spec miata festival race at Sonoma. Really deep field and like always I qualify like crap! We regional guys are on RA1's and a bunch of national/so cal guys are on SM6's. 2nd race of the weekend I have a 99' on SM 6's breathing down my neck after I pass it.

Cut to the stands where some of our pit mates are standing---terantino ish...our pit mate over hears, " just punt him, we only have 2 laps to go", next lap " you've got to punt him, final lap", and low and behold, I get punted in turn 11 by none other than.......(innocent victim gray car from Dean's video) Mr. Curtis Gong!

Screen change, cool hand Luke whistling, I ride my cruiser over to my fellow competitor and say " Hi! I'm rusty, and I was in the green car. Before you say anything, I just wanted you to know that my pit mates ( we had 12 cArs in a space for 6 that weekend!) we're in the stands with your spotter. I know what he told you to do, and well, you did it. (there was a priceless silence). But Im not hear to hurt anybody, I just wanted you to know, that I know, and it will never happen again, ok peaches...

"riding off on my cruiser...... Beer in hand" ...

Roll credits...

Dean, if you were penalized and he was not, I would file ( I'll pay for yours) And run it up the chain to Colorado if you must.

[Ron Alan]

Ding ding ding!!!!! I just figured it out ( Im slow in and out of the car) that that was Mr. Curtis Gong! Hi Curtis!
Funny story!
Two years ago, I'm racing my beater 1990 SM in the spec miata festival race at Sonoma. Really deep field and like always I qualify like crap! We regional guys are on RA1's and a bunch of national/so cal guys are on SM6's. 2nd race of the weekend I have a 99' on SM 6's breathing down my neck after I pass it.
Cut to the stands where some of our pit mates are standing---terantino ish...our pit mate over hears, " just punt him, we only have 2 laps to go", next lap " you've got to punt him, final lap", and low and behold, I get punted in turn 11 by none other than.......(innocent victim gray car from Dean's video) Mr. Curtis Gong!
Screen change, cool hand Luke whistling, I ride my cruiser over to my fellow competitor and say " Hi! I'm rusty, and I was in the green car. Before you say anything, I just wanted you to know that my pit mates ( we had 12 cArs in a space for 6 that weekend!) we're in the stands with your spotter. I know what he told you to do, and well, you did it. (there was a priceless silence). But Im not hear to hurt anybody, I just wanted you to know, that I know, and it will never happen again, ok peaches...
"riding off on my cruiser...... Beer in hand" ...
Roll credits...
Dean, if you were penalized and he was not, I would file ( I'll pay for yours) And run it up the chain to Colorado if you must.

Rusty...the red wine drinking teddy bear! But if he growls, you better pay attention

[Todd Lamb]

Dean - I hope you appealed the decision?