161 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

The line up and video watch from a spectator in T1.

 

      Novak (17) actually 9

Elder 19

      Bender 8

Hille 56

      Randal 89

Todaro 35

      Brown 27

Talbot 4

      Smart 76

Bilicki 51

      Webb 99

Bernacki 34

 

From Hille video:

 

Under start stand 3 wide  Elder 19, Novak (17) 9, Bender 8 

Pre T1                              Bender 8 locks up all 4 (T1 spectator view) with Randal 89 pushing.

Mid T1                              Elder 19, Novak 9, Bender 8, Randal 89, Hille 56 all off drivers left/outside track.

 

After the snarl started, Brown 27 and Smart 76  made some great decisions, they entered T2 with Smart 76 leading and Down town Tommy Brown 27 in P2. 

[Jim Drago]

 

 

After the snarl started, Brown 27 and Smart 76  made some great decisions, they entered T2 with Smart 76 leading and Down town Tommy Brown 27 in P2. 

 

 

No disrespect to anybody... Coming out of that mess unscathed was 90% luck 10 % good decisions.  Many made perfect decisions and were smashed. 

 

All you can do is learn from these deals.. few people commenting here ( including myself) have not done things similar. the only important thing to learn here is what NOT to do next time in order to avoid this from happening again.

. 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

No disrespect to anybody... Coming out of that mess unscathed was 90% luck 10 % good decisions.  Many made perfect decisions and were smashed. 

 

All you can do is learn from these deals.. few people commenting here ( including myself) have not done things similar. the only important thing to learn here is what NOT to do next time in order to avoid this from happening again.

. 

Agree with all above!!!

 

And this is why we dont need a bunch of finger pointing going on.  Nobody in that field want it to go that way not even me who gained benifit from it...

 

We have the greatest group of guys who want to settle the race with driving skill not crashes and bs, I am confident everyone who has viewed these vids will think different.  I am sure will still push each other on the start but i think more restraint will be used in the future.  

[Johnny D]

And this is why we dont need a bunch of finger pointing going on.

But what are going to talk about then ??
J~

[Caveman-kwebb99]

But what are going to talk about then ??
J

 

About how damn fun it is racing chick cars

[Johnny D]

ok.

https://www.youtube....h?v=g7RZGHX1qCY

 

J~

[Johnny D]

https://www.youtube....h?v=MML_WXgTlEI

J~
 

[Bench Racer]

Only reason for my post was, there were a couple this and that's being posted that didn't agree with the videos. In order to learn, we need to follow the facts as best as we can.

 

IMHJ, one of Smart and Brown's first great decisions was to get on the brakes and lessen their involvement. The fact that they were on the inside line into T1 helped their status.

[MPR22]

Agree with all above!!!

 

And this is why we dont need a bunch of finger pointing going on.  Nobody in that field want it to go that way not even me who gained benifit from it...

 

We have the greatest group of guys who want to settle the race with driving skill not crashes and bs, I am confident everyone who has viewed these vids will think different.  I am sure will still push each other on the start but i think more restraint will be used in the future.  

What I see too often is people not finger pointing.  When someone or some group of people make a mistake that tears up a bunch of cars it should be analyzed and critiqued no matter who's feelings get hurt.  We all need to learn from others mistakes and without them being called out and brought into the light  we can't do that.  I make mistakes, sometimes it damages others cars, I try to learn from it and make better decisions.  

 

We race in spec class, more often than not we should finish within a position or two of where we qualify.  Too often I have seen those that didn't qual well for whatever reason try to make up all the spots in between on the start.  Too often this leads to a huge pile up and lots of cars damaged.  These are NOT one lap races, they are usually 30 mins or more in SCCA, plenty of time to show everyone what a great driver you are and how you can work your way to the front.  Unless the guy up front makes ZERO mistakes there will be opportunities to pass.  That is race craft, bonzia blitzs at the start is not racecraft, It is irresponsible.  We don't do this for money, we do this for fun.  It costs us more money to do this than a lot of people make in a year.  Tearing up a car is absolutely the most expensive and least enjoyable part of racing.  It puts more people out of the sport than any other expense.   

[FTodaro]

I started on POLE. I was warned to make a SLOW start or I would be Black flagged....   I will agree it was not my best start but it had ZERO to do with the first corner. The entire right side row hit each one after another in a bump draft and and knocked Bender through the corner and into me as we TRIED to turn the corner... Bender ---who was all the way on the right ---me in the middle and Elders on the left. I watched Benders video and he would have been able to make the turn had he not gotten hit.

 

We should have been able to go through turn one three wide and go from there but instead must everyone in the right row used the guy in front of them as brakes-----Not saying everyone did but I see the same thing in most of the posted videos...

Mike as far as my comments go, i was not making any statement about you or your start of the race, you cannot be responsible for what the pack does from behind you and i agree no matter what the start looks like slow or fast it does not give the guys behind you the justification to hit anyone in the first corner.

 

I am pointing out that i think the slow to moderate start with steady acceleration to Green reduces some of the problems, that is it.

 

I am however suggesting ignoring the request to hold the steady speed to green, as they give that to us at mid O too and we still do a controlled acceleration and have never been flagged.

[Johnny D]

I think there was a little gamesmanship going on up front if Smart and others were coming out of T7 full throttle.

 

And then the flagmen throwing the green whenever.

 

No pointing fingers because Kyle said I can't.

I do so love to race these chick cars though.

J~

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I personally think that the stewards asking for a slow start is the biggest problem here.  so lets point some fingers there.  I am very sorry to see Mikes car torn up and there is not justifacation for that but singling out one driver here helps nothing.  I think next time the steward asks the pole sitter to go slow he should include the whole group of drivers in that conversation. slow starts lead to carnage plain and simple, you can say dont got 3 4 or 5 wide but you know as soon as the flag flies its gonna happen. it happens at aver race i have ever been to except whe we roll on the power at the start 

[FTodaro]

What I see too often is people not finger pointing.  When someone or some group of people make a mistake that tears up a bunch of cars it should be analyzed and critiqued no matter who's feelings get hurt.  We all need to learn from others mistakes and without them being called out and brought into the light  we can't do that.  I make mistakes, sometimes it damages others cars, I try to learn from it and make better decisions.  

 

We race in spec class, more often than not we should finish within a position or two of where we qualify.  Too often I have seen those that didn't qual well for whatever reason try to make up all the spots in between on the start.  Too often this leads to a huge pile up and lots of cars damaged.  These are NOT one lap races, they are usually 30 mins or more in SCCA, plenty of time to show everyone what a great driver you are and how you can work your way to the front.  Unless the guy up front makes ZERO mistakes there will be opportunities to pass.  That is race craft, bonzia blitzs at the start is not racecraft, It is irresponsible.  We don't do this for money, we do this for fun.  It costs us more money to do this than a lot of people make in a year.  Tearing up a car is absolutely the most expensive and least enjoyable part of racing.  It puts more people out of the sport than any other expense.   

A few year ago at Atlanta i got wrecked on the first lap first corner, and Todd Lamb who was coaching me at the time said, "its your fault for qualifying mid pack" Todds tough love theory.

 

I have this same general observation. It causes a large number of crash. The bottom line comes down to this. If you do not have the talent to pull it off then don't do it. If you don't know that you don't have the talant to pull it off, same answer don't do it.

 

It is only when you know that, you know, that you have the talent to pull off a pass that you should do it.

 

There i solved it.

[Tom Hampton]

A few year ago at Atlanta i got wrecked on the first lap first corner, and Todd Lamb who was coaching me at the time said, "its your fault for qualifying mid pack" Todds tough love theory.

 

I have this same general observation. It causes a large number of crash. The bottom line comes down to this. If you do not have the talent to pull it off then don't do it. If you don't know that you don't have the talant to pull it off, same answer don't do it.

 

It is only when you know that, you know, that you have the talent to pull off a pass that you should do it.

 

There i solved it.

I'm guessing the same general accuracy in self-assessed driving skill exists on the race track as it does on the public roads.  Ie, I'm perfectly qualified to text and drive, but everyone else is an IDIOT.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

OK, its all my fault!  problem solved

[Johnny D]

Come on Tom, you know the helmet strap cuts off blood flow.

J~

[MPR22]

I personally think that the stewards asking for a slow start is the biggest problem here.  so lets point some fingers there.  I am very sorry to see Mikes car torn up and there is not justifacation for that but singling out one driver here helps nothing.  I think next time the steward asks the pole sitter to go slow he should include the whole group of drivers in that conversation. slow starts lead to carnage plain and simple, you can say dont got 3 4 or 5 wide but you know as soon as the flag flies its gonna happen. it happens at aver race i have ever been to except whe we roll on the power at the start 

I am an advocate of rolling on the start, however as happened here some starter/steward made a point to tell the pole he should bring the field in slow.  The same thing was asked of us at TWS two weeks ago with 50 car field and lots more room.  Same thing happened, even though every driver was at the meeting where the pole was told to bring it to the line at snails pace.  It is not the starter or stewards fault.  They did not make the bad decision to put cars together at speed with no room to maneuver out of trouble.  That is all on the drivers.  Driver need to be respectful of each other and give room.  THE FUCKIONG RACE will prove who the better driver is, not who has more balls than brains on the start.  Blaming anyone but the pack of wild dogs who can't control themselves or their cars on a start is not the answer.  

Again, I don't disagree with our assertion that rolling on can mitigate for their bad behavior.  It takes jumping the start and leaving huge gaps, to get that big run, out of the equation.  Notice how nobody every wrecks on restarts in this class?  Its because the leader rolls on the start and everyone else has to react, giving a positive accordian effect that strings out the field.  

[Tom Sager]

It's a very narrow track and speeds through turn 1 are WAY down when not driving the racing line. Pole sitter was pretty far right and had to slow down quite a bit.  Some guys a few rows back were moving faster than the front couple rows and they were caught by surprise at the rate and timing of deceleration.  3-wide through turn one rarely works there. 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I guess you need to watch what happend at june sprints restart last year.  Im out have fun this conversation is stupid.

[MPR22]

I guess you need to watch what happend at june sprints restart last year.  Im out have fun this conversation is stupid.

I did forget about that one.  That was a CF for sure.