161 replies to this topic

[MPR22]

I guess you need to watch what happend at june sprints restart last year.  Im out have fun this conversation is stupid.

And the conversation is only stupid if people keep repeating the same mistakes and blaming anyone but the drivers.  

[davew]

A couple things I know.

 

At BFR the right lane is a big advantage. I would rather start 5th than 2nd.

 

The officials at Blackhawk are the same ones that we see at Road America. Since I see these people multiple times each year, I hear things. The stewards are not happy with the usual SM starts. They do not like the front rows accelerating before the green flag. Especially at Road America where the field is typically at full speed at pit entry, which is long before the crest of the hill and not within sight of the bridge. It has been suggested that anyone caught accelerating prior to the green will be black flagged and counciled in pit lane not to do it again.

 

Seeing the starter from rows 2-15 is difficult at BFR, the bridge is simply not high enough to see over the row in front of you. Thus radios and a green green green call are huge. This may or may not be the reason some people get a jump over others at the start.

 

All this being said, running into the back of a competitor is wrong. You must maintain control of your car at all times. Control = the ability to not hit the car in front.

 

I am installing 6 fenders and 3 bumpers this week

 

dave

[JRHille]

each individual needs to watch his video and try to think about any possible way HE could have avoided the situation. Regardless of whether or not you think you were at fault, if everyone can come up with one thing that they could have done differently, and stop looking at other drivers, this sort of thing would be a whole lot less common.

[Johnny D]

Last time I check the flagman was not required to wave the green, correct ??

 

If you guys play games, don't line up, jump, whatever, why should he throw it ?

 

It's your race, it's your time. Do you want to do it right or do you want to go around again and try again.

 

Sounds like you got the flagman whipped or he doesn't care and just throws it anyway.

 

J~

[Bench Racer]

From my observations within the CenDiv, it's rare for the green flag to not be thrown the first time by. Just as we have habits the starter flag folks have habits.

[Johnny D]

You can give the director my speech, but them saying "they took off before I waved it " is BS, IMO.

J~

[Jim Drago]

Especially at Road America where the field is typically at full speed at pit entry, which is long before the crest of the hill and not within sight of the bridge. It has been suggested that anyone caught accelerating prior to the green will be black flagged and counciled in pit lane not to do it again.

The safest, most fair starts at Road America are in our class have been done just this way. Perhaps they should concentrate on letting the correct lane of cars out of the pits first. Let the racers start the races like we have for the last 5-6 years, they know what they are doing. If lucky enough to start from the front row I will be starting the same way we have for years..

[Johnny D]

Ok, I guess the back of the pack is still on the hill right ?

 

How was it at MRLS Jim? you didn't get stacked until the green dropped? IDK I wasn't there.

 

Kyle's did Sonoma, We stacked them up and waited for the green to fly.

 

The flagman should figure out what's safest even if a super late or early green.

 

Pole controls pace speed, not the green, IMO.

 

But that's your guys call.

J~

[Rob Burgoon]

Congrats Kyle!

 

Shame the front row couldn't hold a steady speed.

[Jim Drago]

Ok, I guess the back of the pack is still on the hill right ?

 

How was it at MRLS Jim? you didn't get stacked until the green dropped? IDK I wasn't there.

 

Kyle's did Sonoma, We stacked them up and waited for the green to fly.

 

The flagman should figure out what's safest even if a super late or early green.

 

Pole controls pace speed, not the green, IMO.

 

But that's your guys call.

J~

 

 

From Memory laguna start was similar to what I described above, no drama

[tynor]

each individual needs to watch his video and try to think about any possible way HE could have avoided the situation. Regardless of whether or not you think you were at fault, if everyone can come up with one thing that they could have done differently, and stop looking at other drivers, this sort of thing would be a whole lot less common.

 

Reminds me of something I learned in driver's school.  I can't remember who it was attributed to, but it was essentially: whatever happens on the race track is YOUR FAULT.  It doesn't matter if you get struck by lightning on the back straight. Being where the lightning hit is YOUR FAULT.    Learn from any incident and find ways to not let it happen again.

[Ron Alan]

each individual needs to watch his video and try to think about any possible way HE could have avoided the situation. Regardless of whether or not you think you were at fault, if everyone can come up with one thing that they could have done differently, and stop looking at other drivers, this sort of thing would be a whole lot less common.

An incredible statement from such a young driver...if only all young drivers had this attitude(and many older ones!)

Mr. Hille can come to the west coast any time and drive my car!

[Johnny D]

So what's with this all, "black flag, bring you in for a talk in the pits" when it's been done without drama, is proven to be safer and nobody does what's threatened ??

J~

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Congrats Kyle!

 

 

 

Thanks Rob

[Danny Steyn]

Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster. I wish my first post was under better circumstances, but I feel I need to comment on the start and provide my perspective.

 

My name is Jordan Smart, and I am the #76 in question. I recognize that my bump on the 17 was late. I've watched the start well over 50 times by this point (mine and others) trying to figure out how this could have been avoided. Luckily Tom was heads up enough to grab the brakes after my bump, mostly negating it before we got to turn 1. I recognize my mistake and would like to publicly apologize for it. I will take my lashings and going forward I will be more heads up as to when and where the boosts are applied. I feel especially gutted seeing as I came out of it in the lead.

 

 

 

This gap was not my intention. I always prefer to be on the leading car's bumper on the start (to take advantage of missed shifts, slow starters, etc) and I was expecting a slower start like Saturday. I was full throttle coming out of T7 just trying to catch up before we took the green, but it looks like everyone else was too.

 

 

Kyle, this means a lot to me. Thank you.

 

Jason - welcome to the forum as a poster

 

Sure you might have had a hand in this, but to come on the forum and publicly apologize, especially with your first post, this is how you earn the respect of people you have never met. We all make mistakes. Most never apologize

Props to you.

 

Watching videos helps a ton, but we have to be careful as sometimes a video only tells half the story and another view gives a completely different perspective. But from watching yours and Kyles, I think that the gap had a big part to play. Do not believe it was intentional, sometimes you just get surprised and the gap opens up. Then the different closing speeds come into play.......

[LarryKing]

General observation - The more prestigious and lucrative the event the bigger risks drivers take to improve their finishing position.

[davew]

Read from the GCR:

 

6.5.2. The Pace Lap

A. One pace lap precedes all races, unless the Series Chief Steward or Chief Steward authorizes an additional unscored pace lap.

B. The pace lap may begin at a brisk pace, but must be sufficiently slowed before the start line to allow orderly grouping of the field.

The actual speed immediately prior to the start is dictated by the types of cars, size of the field, and course layout. However, the standard SCCA start is a rolling start and not a flying start. The

same official should brief the front row drivers before each race, preferably the Starter, under the direction of the Series Chief Steward or Chief Steward.

1. If a pace car is used, it will be positioned at the head of the pack, with emergency lights flashing. Drivers may not pass the pace car until it turns off its emergency lights and pulls off the track, and the pole car will maintain the speed of the pace car before it pulled off track until the green flag. The front row drivers must be advised not to pass the pace car.

 

AND:

 

C. A car may not improve its position in the field after the cars are released from the grid for the pace lap.

1. A car that improves its position relative to the field during the pace lap by moving forward, moving out of line, or passing before the green flag is displayed may be penalized for a false start. If a false start has occurred, and the race has been started, the driver(s) may be black-flagged and held in the pits or at the start line for up to 1 minute, and other penalties may also be imposed, as specified in Section 7.

 

To continue Jim's point. At Road America, the pace car enters pit lane and typically the front row goes full throttle. At this point you are roughly 1/2 mile from the starters stand and about 1/4 mile before you can even see the starters stand due to the hill. Yet you are only 100 yards from turn 14. Thus the front row is fully accelerating while the back half of the field is still going through a corner 2x2. Is that improving your position by moving forward? Remember this is a mile long straightaway with plenty of time after the green flag flys to race into turn 1.

 

I have not raced at Road America in 10 years. So this is more a question than an opinion.

 

dave

[FTodaro]

Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster. I wish my first post was under better circumstances, but I feel I need to comment on the start and provide my perspective.

 

My name is Jordan Smart, and I am the #76 in question. I recognize that my bump on the 17 was late. I've watched the start well over 50 times by this point (mine and others) trying to figure out how this could have been avoided. Luckily Tom was heads up enough to grab the brakes after my bump, mostly negating it before we got to turn 1. I recognize my mistake and would like to publicly apologize for it. I will take my lashings and going forward I will be more heads up as to when and where the boosts are applied. I feel especially gutted seeing as I came out of it in the lead.

 

 

 

This gap was not my intention. I always prefer to be on the leading car's bumper on the start (to take advantage of missed shifts, slow starters, etc) and I was expecting a slower start like Saturday. I was full throttle coming out of T7 just trying to catch up before we took the green, but it looks like everyone else was too.

 

 

Kyle, this means a lot to me. Thank you.

Jordan welcome to the forum,

 

Like Drago said a few posts ago, no one on this board can say they have not done the same thing or made more serious mistakes. So As Danny said it take a bigger person to come and and say it rather then what we normally get which  is it was not me. So Lots of respect from the class.

 

Following up on Kyle's post, i have raced against Jordan  several times last year, a good solid and talented clean racer. Would race door to door with him anytime.

 

BTW I think the intention of the discussion is not to put blame on people, to me, the purpose is to talk out the issues of what happens, as an educational statement so that folks understand how to deal with it going forward.

[Jim Drago]

We are once again trying to address a problem that does not need fixing..


2011
http://speedcasttv.com/#/races/272
start at 8:35 this looks text book to me


2012
http://speedcasttv.com/#/races/332
start at 7:00


2013
http://speedcasttv.com/#/races/272
start 17:35


No wrecks, no serious changes in position less missed shifts etc. I would think these are the type of starts we should be hoping for?

[Craig Berry]

I am only commenting on my own experience at Rd America. The front has always rolled the throttle once the pace car pull off at the bottom of the hill, this seems to work well....all cars had to go 2x2 thru 14 and all had to climb the hill. I think at this particular track, if the front waited to see the flag the mid pack rows May go right by the front 3 or 4 rows as we go back down the hill to turn 1. I do not know this for a fact, because the start has always been the same, and pretty uneventful, even with the record runoff crowd 2 yrs ago. (please dont bring up the Sprints race where the grid was completely screwed up....does not count). To Dave's point, I can see if you are not yet to 14 it may be somewhat tough, but with 70 cars someone may always not be to 14 when front row crosses the line. Only solution is to not qualify 65th......really rough from there, I know, missed qualifying at Daytona and started there. NOT EASY