310 replies to this topic

[38bfast]

If a shallow win or trophies does it for you. Not something I would be proud of but to each his own. I guess your buddies back home won't know the difference.

[Ron Alan]

If a shallow win or trophies does it for you. Not something I would be proud of but to each his own. I guess your buddies back home won't know the difference.

Jane, you arrogant slut! 

[Jim Drago]

Hmmm, if viewed from a marketing perspective what can we learm from this?
 
Is it possible that some 1.6 owners are not satisfied with the product that SM offers?

We should probably ask those entering. Most (including myself) feel they are entering this class as they can't compete in SM or simply feel they have a much better chance of competing here. The real question is why? Despite popular opinion, it isn't the rules. The rules and parity could be a few tenths at best, not seconds.

I think despite all this rules debating and blaming.. we don't have much of a rules or parity problem.. We have a funding, experience and talent problem. Our class is comprised of many who have little to no experience all the way to many who are basically pro drivers. We have cars that many of us would never sit in all the way up to cars that are 60k plus. Hp disparities from 110 to 130 and so on and so on. Unfortunately most on the lower end of ALL these disparities are in 1.6 cars and thus the feeling we have a rules/parity issue.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

We should probably ask those entering. Most (including myself) feel they are entering this class as they can't compete in SM or simply feel they have a much better chance of competing here. The real question is why.. despite popular opinion, it isnt the rules. the rules and parity is a few tenths at best, not seconds.
I think despite all this rules debating and blaming.. we don't have much of a rules or parity problem.. We have a funding, experience and talent problem. Our class is comprised of many who have little to no experience all the way to many who are basically pro drivers. We have cars that many of us would never sit in all the way up to cars that are 60k plus. Hp disparities from 110 to 130.

 

Why do you keep saying this???  Waisitng your time here!!!!  Its the car morris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LarryKing]

 

If a shallow win or trophies does it for you.

 

Maybe not shallow for long. Eight entries in the Turkey Trot so far - a few more entries and you've got an average Majors field.

 

 

We have cars that many of us would never sit in all the way up to cars that are 60k plus. Hp disparities from 110 to 130.         

 

And is this an ideal situation for a 'spec' class to be in?

[Jim Drago]

And is this an ideal situation for a 'spec' class to be in?

No, in a perfect world these problems wouldn't exist. Those in these spots would fix their shortcomings. Unfortunately for all, this is the real world and club racing. There will always be massive disparities in talent, funding, experience and car preparation. None of this is reason to adjust rules, class philosophy or add more classes.

[John Wilding]

Hey there fellas, I'm usually a very quiet lurker and also a 1.6 driver that entered his car in the SMSE class for Turkey Trot. I entered the class mainly for the water cooler talk at the office on Monday. It's easier to say that I finished 1st-3rd vs. 8th-20th without having to explain the differences in weight, torque, displacement, etc between NA's and NB's. 

 

I want one SM class and will be doing what the rules allow in the future to get my 1.6 competitive, but for this Turkey Trot I'll enter as SMSE for the heck of it. The plan is to race for the SMSE victory, but I also want to see how I stack up against the normal competition as I finally have a new motor. 

 

As for the car prep, our car is a very well prepped 1.6 and the talent behind the wheel is hit or miss based on the weekend. I just haven't had the scratch to invest in an NB as our little 1.6 has been chugging a long for all these years and I only get to race a few times a year so the investment was too much to swallow.

 

Last year I finished 8th in both races and hope to do the same if not better. 

 

Looking forward to finally racing again and seeing how the future stacks up for the little 1.6. 

[LarryKing]

So far, eleven 1.6s entered in the Turkey Trot and all but two of them entered as SMSE. Why wouldn't you?

[Jim Drago]

So far, eleven 1.6s entered in the Turkey Trot and all but two of them entered as SMSE. Why wouldn't you?

I would ask why would you?

[LarryKing]

A sense of hope.

[David L]

No, in a perfect world these problems wouldn't exist. Those in these spots would fix their shortcomings. Unfortunately for all, this is the real world and club racing. There will always be massive disparities in talent, funding, experience and car preparation. None of this is reason to adjust rules, class philosophy or add more classes.That is 

That is the problem, the HAVE'S have already changed the philosophy for the HAVE NOTS 

 

A. PURPOSE AND INTENT The Spec Miata (SM) class is intended to provide the membership with the opportunity to compete in low cost, production-based cars with limited modifications, suitable for racing competition.

[David L]

Leave us have nots alone and we wont hate everyone so much

[Cnj]

Leave us have nots alone and we wont hate everyone so much

Hate? Is that serious?

Anyway, unless I'm missing something you (and Walter to the extent he agrees with you) are fooling yourselves. SMSE is running SM rules so let's assume for a moment that it was able to gain traction and achieve decent car counts. How long before the "haves" come and outspend the "have nots" (in time, money and talent)? Then what?

If you came to the table with a cogent and implementable plan for low cost controls on SM racing, I would be all ears. These circular arguments that simply attack people who are willing/able to spend more money than you (or me) on car prep, new engines, tires, track time, coaching, etc solve nothing. Hating people is not a stratergy.

CNJ

[Parity]

Trophy quest.

 

[Johnny D]

We should probably ask those entering. Most (including myself) feel they are entering this class as they can't compete in SM or simply feel they have a much better chance of competing here. The real question is why? Despite popular opinion, it isn't the rules. The rules and parity could be a few tenths at best, not seconds.

I think despite all this rules debating and blaming.. we don't have much of a rules or parity problem.. We have a funding, experience and talent problem. Our class is comprised of many who have little to no experience all the way to many who are basically pro drivers. We have cars that many of us would never sit in all the way up to cars that are 60k plus. Hp disparities from 110 to 130 and so on and so on. Unfortunately most on the lower end of ALL these disparities are in 1.6 cars and thus the feeling we have a rules/parity issue.

I know how it is and the reality but aren't all these above ^^ diminished for a 1.6er in SSM??

Powers at be have the mind set of if you want to win/competitive you need a NB. "Sorry, not a lot I can do"
1.6er don't want too, so what do you get.

A place for them, at least for a while.
Who's got a better spec class now ??

Will see,
Just saying
J~

[David L]

Hate? Is that serious?

 

No that was a joke.

 

​Do I have a iron clad solution, also a no. But we should not fool ourselves as to how our class got here. The class grew because of that first sentence in the GCR.

 

A. PURPOSE AND INTENT The Spec Miata (SM) class is intended to provide the membership with the opportunity to compete in LOW COST, production-based cars with limited modifications, suitable for racing competition.

 

 

As stated above by Jim a competitive car can cost 60K!!!!  What the F@!K!!!!!!! WE ALLOW ported and polished HEADS. Lamb will build you a spec boxter for 45K

[Jim Drago]

I went back and re read this entire thread as I was made aware that a few of my posts were very offensive to those that have competed/plan to compete in this class. My intent, is not and was not to offend any of these competitors, but can see how it is taken that way. For that I apologize.

However, I stand by the facts of my posts without the unneeded inflammatory remarks

IMO, we do not need another class, well a sub class of SM, with the same rules, just excluding all but 1.6 cars. We have SM and we have SSM, I don't see a need for SMSE. As stated above.. I think the disparity is more funds, talent , prep etc than actual rules. As someone else mentioned above, we are all for containing costs.. lets work to that goal rather than create new classes.
Jim

[LarryKing]

I love everyone.

Except for maybe that damn genie that's been running free for at least ten years.

I agree with Johnny. The 1.6 crowd just want a place to play. At least I think that's what he meant. Who can tell?

[Danica Davison]

Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference (high level) between SSM and SM, and the difference between SSM and SMSE?  I have been wrong before, but to my understanding, quite a few of you seem to be okay with SSM but strongly against SMSE for splitting the class up.  My next question is, why is it okay to split up the class to SSM but not SMSE? 

[David L]

SSM is basically SM before any rule changes. In a nut shell. And it can work anywhere that there is real interest.