310 replies to this topic

[Todd Lamb]

No disrespect Todd, great job your doing, etc., you show a lot of passion and take this personal. IMO

If you were coaching on this wouldn't your strategy be, to focus on making SM the best it can be as opposed to lost focus on shooting down other people's/regions idea's ??

Time will tell, it's the group of people SMSE is catering to IMO, weather it will work or not or need a tweak or 2 or fail. Different strokes for different folks.

Make SM more attractive and they'll switch, IMO.
J~

Making SM the best it can be also involves keeping the class whole. If splinter classes were a good idea, we'd be exploring them on the SMAC/CRB. SCCA has been eliminating classes over the years, not adding.

Technically this isn't in other people's region. It is in MY region (SEdiv) and believe me I had a lot of discussions about this with SE officials at Road Atlanta last weekend.

[Johnny D]

Got it.
Thanks.
J~

[Johnny D]

J~

[LarryKing]

 

And you didn't acknowledge the fact that a HUGE number of 99 drivers have, in your words, "no hope" to podium. What do we do about them?

 

James, you haven't been paying attention. I've been pointing out for years that the constant development and raising of the bar, not to mention monetizing, makes it impossible for a "little guy or gal" to compete. (You know, the ones this class was originally designed for)

 

What can be done about that. Hell if I know. Maybe start a new "low cost" class and get the rules right this time? (Like not adding multiple generations of cars) I hear good things about Spec Boxster.

 

 

believe me I had a lot of discussions about this with SE officials at Road Atlanta last weekend.

 

I can only imagine how thrilled they were.

[davew]

SMSE will not effect the number of entries or level of competition at any Majors event. The class is ONLY for regional/divisional races.

 

The question is; Will it effect the entries at the regional/divisional races by a) swapping entries from SM to SMSE? a net zero effect Adding entries to SMSE by bringing some of the "parked" cars back to the track? A net gain c) diminish the total number of entries? A net loss.

 

As long as the SMSE rules remain consistent with the regular SM rules, I do not see option c happening. If that is correct, there is either a net zero or a gain to be the result. So why not give it a try and see what happens.

 

Dave

[Johnny D]

I'm sure the meeting went well.



J~

[Jim Drago]

SMSE will not effect the number of entries or level of competition at any Majors event. The class is ONLY for regional/divisional races.
 
The question is; Will it effect the entries at the regional/divisional races by a) swapping entries from SM to SMSE? a net zero effect Adding entries to SMSE by bringing some of the "parked" cars back to the track? A net gain c) diminish the total number of entries? A net loss.
 
As long as the SMSE rules remain consistent with the regular SM rules, I do not see option c happening. If that is correct, there is either a net zero or a gain to be the result. So why not give it a try and see what happens.
 
Dave

Serious question... Should we allow non competitive NB cars/drivers into this class as well? There are FAR MORE with no chance of podiuming than can ever podium( see no hope). Why is this only for 1.6 cars? Why not NA 1.8 cars as well? Many(most) of them feel the same way as many of these 1.6 drivers. Maybe anyone 3 seconds plus a lap off of pole in qualifying is eligible for SMSE? Lets make it "fair" for all that feel they are at a disadvantage, not just the 1.6 cars/drivers.

[LarryKing]

 

Serious question... Should we allow non competitive NB cars/drivers into this class as well? There are FAR MORE with no chance of podiuming than can ever podium( see no hope). Why is this only for 1.6 cars? Why not NA 1.8 cars as well? Many(most) of them feel the same way as many of these 1.6 drivers. Maybe anyone 3 seconds plus a lap off of pole in qualifying is eligible for SMSE? Lets make it "fair" for all that feel they are at a disadvantage, not just the 1.6 cars/drivers.         

 

I don't know if I can take your question seriously when you have repeatedly said that the 1.6 is obsolete and basically it's time to pull the plug on it. I would have no problem with NA 1.8 cars being added to SMSE.

 

 

So why not give it a try and see what happens.

 

Could not agree more.

[davearm]

I am your basic, low budget, 1 man SM team, with my lowly 1.6. Can't afford to buy a NB, but enjoy the ability that SM gives me to always have someone to race with, either SCCA or NASA. I have no illusions of getting on the podium, my budget and mechanical skills do not allow me the level of prep to do so, nor do my driving skills at present.  It is alway more fun to be racing closer to the pointy end of the field though, I doubt anyone can deny that.  I have no interest in a class with only 5 or 6 entree's, but am willing to support the effort to grow SMSE. It would very likely sway my decision to race SCCA vs NASA if there was a decision where to race on a given week or month. If the experiment does not work, what harm have we caused?  What is the harm in trying to get more participation, and enabling some competitors to possibly have a more enjoyable experience.

[Erik Hardy]

Just throwing this out there for those unaware since I come from the mx world. Most of the big bike classes are split up into different skill levels A, B, and C (Beginner) classes. You choose or are told which class you should be in (you know your place after the first race). Once you go to a higher class, you can't step back down. No payouts for C class, some for B class, and decent money for A class. It allows for those who are new, to learn at a comfortable pace without being lapped by some serious battle in the A class on the last lap. Different schools of thought I guess. 

 

Serious question... Should we allow non competitive NB cars/drivers into this class as well? There are FAR MORE with no chance of podiuming than can ever podium( see no hope). Why is this only for 1.6 cars? Why not NA 1.8 cars as well? Many(most) of them feel the same way as many of these 1.6 drivers. Maybe anyone 3 seconds plus a lap off of pole in qualifying is eligible for SMSE? Lets make it "fair" for all that feel they are at a disadvantage, not just the 1.6 cars/drivers.

[Tom Scheifler]

Serious question... Should we allow non competitive NB cars/drivers into this class as well? There are FAR MORE with no chance of podiuming than can ever podium( see no hope). Why is this only for 1.6 cars? Why not NA 1.8 cars as well? Many(most) of them feel the same way as many of these 1.6 drivers. Maybe anyone 3 seconds plus a lap off of pole in qualifying is eligible for SMSE? Lets make it "fair" for all that feel they are at a disadvantage, not just the 1.6 cars/drivers.

Nonsense. Obviously there should be a separate class for just NBs.

[Johnny D]

I was thinking "careful what you ask for" if this catches on. ^^ 

 

J~

[High Chair]

Serious question... Should we allow non competitive NB cars/drivers into this class as well? There are FAR MORE with no chance of podiuming than can ever podium( see no hope). Why is this only for 1.6 cars? Why not NA 1.8 cars as well? Many(most) of them feel the same way as many of these 1.6 drivers. Maybe anyone 3 seconds plus a lap off of pole in qualifying is eligible for SMSE? Lets make it "fair" for all that feel they are at a disadvantage, not just the 1.6 cars/drivers.

I don't think that is a serious question. Sure there will be those that will podium and those that won't but right now there are those that could do better driving cars that can't no matter how much they spend. 1.6 owners want better racing and a chance to run in the front. We have beat this to death and you and Lamb have talked in circles trying to rationalize why SMSE is not a good idea. However, I along with others that have driven all of the cars do not agree with you. SMSE could offer some of the best racing to date with equal cars and large fields. I think most people would prefer to get SM closer to Spec Miata and away from Similar Miata. Lets face it, that what we NB drivers have right now. When we race it's mainly against other NBs because those are the ones that are up front. Why not let the 1.6s have their own race as well? If we do get 12+ SMSE drivers for the Turkey Trot I believe the 1.6 drivers will have a much better experience than they would riding around mid-pack and being told that their driving and/or cars are 2nd tier. 

[Todd Lamb]

So you are advocating placing all the 1.6 cars into a separate class?

 

If that's what everyone wants, we can discuss doing that for all events (regional/majors) and make it a SCCA rule. Who wants to write the first letter?

[James York]

James, you haven't been paying attention. I've been pointing out for years that the constant development and raising of the bar, not to mention monetizing, makes it impossible for a "little guy or gal" to compete. (You know, the ones this class was originally designed for)

 

What can be done about that. Hell if I know. Maybe start a new "low cost" class and get the rules right this time? (Like not adding multiple generations of cars) I hear good things about Spec Boxster.

 

 

 

Honestly.  I don't really need to since its nothing new from you.

 

You hear good things about spec boxster?, just like you heard in the past for SM5, SRF, and yet you are still here playing the same song... over and over.

 

You can just copy paste and save you some typing.

[Highwayracer]

Making a separate class for 1.6 Spec Miatas racing under the same ruleset from the GCR is fine, but its not going to do anything to maintain a level playing field AND control costs.  The SM-SE people who can't or aren't willing to spend money on new tires every week, probuilt motors and whatever the go fast goodie of the week might be are going to end up mid or back of the pack, just in a smaller class. 

 

SSM is a DIFFERENT CLASS based upon the same platform that is designed to control costs and promote close competition.  The intent of SSM is to promote close competition and control costs by limiting the allowed modifications.  A legal 1.6 SM can be made SSM legal for about the cost of a set of tires or so.  The spec tire for SSM is the Toyo RA-1, which will wear better and hold speed much longer than the HoHos, so you get that cost back when you don't have to buy that new set of tires next week.  What, you're not going to buy new tires next week?  Not on the pointy end anymore, are you?  Remaining competitive in class is going to be a lot cheaper in SSM than SM-SE in the long run.

 

SM-SE will attract 1.6 drivers because right now its the easy button to be able to run up front when they've been mid-pack, but its going to dilute the SM field.  The work of the SMAC to create parity for the 1.6 is the answer for the people that are willing and able to spend the money.  SSM is the class for the guys that want to have fun, enjoy close competition and control costs.

 

Lastly, WHY are the people who have been working on a solution for the 1.6 not being included in any of the SM-SE discussions?  The SARRC committee is doing a poor job of representing the membership!  SSM works and is very successful in WDC, and can work in SEDIV. 

[Todd Lamb]

Whoa. Logic and reason? Check!

+1

[38bfast]

Please don't tell me that SMSE will be run in the same run group as SM

[E-Speed Motorsports]

SMSE will be run in the same group as SM.

[Waterboy]

On second thought it's just not worth commenting.

+1000 on what highway said.