177 replies to this topic

[Tom Scheifler]

Using all the runs overlayed. The red car on average can out turn, out brake and out run the blue car. The blue car is way more consistent than the red car especially in the technical areas. Just based on the graphs and not taking into count draft traffic and such the red car has more capability that the driver isn't extracting. If I was presented this and and ask what car I wanted to race based only on this data sample I would pick the red car.

 

Hmmm.  That blue (black) car is for sale at $29,950.  I'll sell the red one for $29,000. 

[Steve Scheifler]

And I'll throw mine in for just $20k in a package deal!

Reminds me of the escalating property tax assessment of my deteriorating home, if they think it's worth that much they should be required to buy it.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Can't be just buy one for 10k or less that's just as good as those to run with the 30k car???

Pretty sure we can...

Certainly can buy one and put a few thousand into it and it be as good I would think. But what do I know.

Some will say this is what spec miata should be everyone in 10k cars or less, and maybe it should be not really sure.

[Tom Scheifler]

Can't be just buy one for 10k or less that's just as good as those to run with the 30k car???

Would that be a bad thing? Why make people spend $30k to be competitive? If the same driver can get the same result for $10-$15k less than the current cost, that sounds like a good idea to me.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

They have that class already it's called ssM.

[Tom Scheifler]

They have that class already it's called ssM.

No, I meant (and I thought you did too) without regression of the current SM rule set.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Or if you want to give us give us 99 up guys a header or bigger rp or lower weight maybe we can do that also...

[Steve Scheifler]

Kyle is still being obnoxious, don't waste time assuming otherwise where we are concerned. He means that the 1.6 has such an advantage that even a half-assed effort is competitive, not that there's anything wrong with succeeding at building "a competitive car for $15k all-in", so long as it's an NB. Talking out his ass as usual lately because he has not one clue as to how much time money and effort has gone into our cars and each event, and obviously has no interest in finding out.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Yep you guys are that good of drivers that your 10-15k cars are competitive now. Obnoxious or not the data and vid pretty much proves that point and I am obviously not the only one who thinks so, Im just one of the few other then hardy that has the nutts to come out and say it.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

If my dad gave me a new gun for Christmas but momma wanted to take it away I would fight hard to keep it also... so you guys are doing the right thing IMO

[Caveman-kwebb99]

And Steve I am all for saving money! Stupid that we need to spend 30k plus... but if I can own a 15k 1.6 and be competitive with a 30k plus 99 then how is that parity?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I can assure you no 15k 99+ is competitive in the slightest

[Caveman-kwebb99]

And it takes countless hours and effort to go really fast in a 99+ it's not just bolt any old stuff together and win, nobody in this class is doing that no matter what year they are driving

[Steve Scheifler]

Kyle, I don't object to your opinions, only your stubborn ignorance. Where do you get the 10-15k number? Are you so shallow that it is based on cosmetics? What value can I place on our time? How much time per on-track hour do you personally spend working on the car, looking at data & video, etc? (Physical excercise, though valuable, doesn't count for this.) I will plead guilty to being very inefficient and not as effective as I'd like, but even accounting for that I don't think you can come close. The way you talk suggests (note that word, it implies that I am inferring based on insufficient data to claim actual knowledge) that you don't really know what is required to make a car "competitive" vs fresh, shiny and at least somewhat less likely for things to fail in the next few races. I'll give you a clue, it does not *require* writing someone else a $35k check.

[Steve Scheifler]

I'll give you a couple more clues even though you clearly won't use them. When we decided to start racing again I went part-time and won't take offers from clients unless I am free to define my schedule. Second clue, I own a friggin dyno dude. Third clue, other than having Mark Bennett deal with our transmissions ( of which I have at least 4 from him) we do all of our own work including engine assembly. Are you SURE you want to take us on in terms of effort to be competitive???

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Steve I spend probably as much time on my car as anyone in the class. Ilook at data video I do coaching I do it all I eat sleep and drink am. Anyone that knows me knows that's true, do I make mistakes on and off track hell yes all the time. But my dedication cannot be questioned by anyone. My cwr is nearly as ugly as yours just no dents. But it rolls like a mother runs like a mother, and I spend hours maintain and setting it up monitoring it etc. Nobody in the class has access to the dyno and parts like Jim... he is a tough act to follow but I try my best as I am sure you do. If you come up to the cat majors I would be happy to swap cars as long as you can cover the write-off of my engine or chassis for a session on test day

[Tom Scheifler]

And it takes countless hours and effort to go really fast in a 99+ it's not just bolt any old stuff together and win, nobody in this class is doing that no matter what year they are driving

Wow. You really are completely clueless about the effort and money put into our racing.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Well I'm second thought we will just agree to disagree... I'm out have a great weekend! Fun is calling!

[Steve Scheifler]

Unless you don't have a real job and also don't have a life, I still doubt it. I work no more than 3 days/week, I'm at the shop the other 4 and many evenings. It shouldn't really take anywhere near that much time, but I have it so I use it. If you spend anywhere near as much time then you are probably not very productive either. As for Jim, he has a business and a good life outside of racing so I don't think he spends quite so many hours to improve. There is after all a law of diminishing returns.

But again, this hasn't been about whether I think one model or another has an inherent advantage, you haven't even asked me that. You made it about whether it was even plausible for two particular drivers to be competitive in what you erroneously assumed to be low-budget cars thrown together from whatever parts were lying around.

[Steve Scheifler]

Well I'm second thought we will just agree to disagree... I'm out have a great weekend! Fun is calling!

Yea, you've definitely dug deep enough. But one more clue, let's compare tire budgets. We knew that for our own development as drivers we needed to get close enough to the front, at least at our two best tracks, to have a shot at running with fast guys. We've been to what, 4 events this year? I've got receipts for roughly $10k in tires plus 4 more sets of 949 wheels to go with the 15 sets of wheels we already owned. I don't guess that fits too well into your calculations either, or into your "expert" analysis of our races.