Its official.. Let's call it the RPTMP and roll with it!
ironic we are naming a program after a guy who doesn' race in our class and therfore has no need to buy tires!
Its official.. Let's call it the RPTMP and roll with it!
ironic we are naming a program after a guy who doesn' race in our class and therfore has no need to buy tires!
K. Webb
Powered by East Street Racing (Best engines in Spec Miata)
Driver coach, Spec Miata Prep shop, Spec Miata Setup
2016 Hard Charger award passing 12 cars runoffs 2016 Mid Ohio
2016 P3 RUNOFFS OVER 40 DIVISION LOL!
2015 First consolation prize Northern Conference Majors Title Pageant
2015 Winner Circus Cat Majors Road America
2015 Winner BlackHawk Majors crash fest
My Signature is still not as long as Danny boy's
3 sets of used tires= $900, one set of new tires= $900, sooo seems like a no brainer to me...
Adam Roberts
Powered By East Street
Coached by Kyle "Caveman" Webb
2006 WKA National Champion
2016 Sci-Fi Cat Nationals Majors Winner
2017 Hoosier Super Tour Winner at Mid-Ohio
2017 STL National Champion
2018 STL Hoosier Super Tour Winner
A.Roberts.Racing@Gmail.com
I have withheld my vote till now because i wanted to get everyone's opinions about the pros and cons. at the end of the day limiting cost is a good thing I would support any program that excludes the regional racer as its not an issue imo. As a class we have to continue to innovate. It should be tested before it goes nationwide but it deserves a good test at a minimum to work out the bugs.
Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
3 sets of used tires= $900, one set of new tires= $900, sooo seems like a no brainer to me...
This is why it's in Hoosiers interest to make a longer lasting tire. If the second hand market is that attractive (as I've also realized), then you'll be selling a whole lot less new tires unless the product improves.
2019 SeDIV SMSE Champion
I have a problem with any rule that cannot be enforced. NO CHANCE you ask a volunteer tech crew to enforce a tire rule that requires a scanner, stickers and constant monitoring.
I'm not even going to go into the ways you "could" beat the system.....
I love Hoosier, they have been great to me and the SM community. I've always asked for a harder narrower tire... Use the search function.... I've been beating that drum for a decade. Hoosier could build it but they would sell less tires or the tires would get way more expensive...business is business.
I have a problem with any rule that cannot be enforced. NO CHANCE you ask a volunteer tech crew to enforce a tire rule that requires a scanner, stickers and constant monitoring.
I'm not even going to go into the ways you "could" beat the system.....
Please play devils advocate...( that goes for everyone)
For the sake of argument, please assume we can deliver on a tamper proof stickers for the tires and car. I know that is paramount to the success of the plan..
There is no use of a scanner etc..
Here's the example..
Mike Collins registers for June Sprints and is handed with his tech sticker two runoffs style door stickers that say " SCCA Hoosier Super Tour Tire "12345" and you also get four tire stickers all with "12345' on them for you to apply to he four tires of your choice with instructions on how to clean and prepare the tire surface to accept the sticker as we will only allow one mishap, if you "lose" 2 or more stickers, you will be starting from the back. .
No car stickers can be mounted on clear tape and then on car, must be directly applied to the car. Tire stickers must be mounted to sidewall of the tire, not the wheel.
You are called in for top qualifying say.. They weigh you.. or just do an open hood and trunk inspection.
They simply look at door and tire stickers and make sure they match. That is literally zero effort for volunteers and should be very enforceable. No harder than inspecting the height of your car numbers
Spell out how to cheat it.. (Not getting called in and checked is not beating the system imo. It would be no different than pulling a plate and hoping you weren't called in) That info is just as valuable or more so than the plan implementation itself. If we can deliver on the stickers( I believe we can). I have not found a way to cheat the system
Jim
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
Here's the part I'm struggling with - Hoosier is the supplier, we are the customer. It seems we're trying to overcome a problem bourne by the suppliers product. If there are tires out there that don't have a significantly larger competitive advantage at 5-6 HCs vs stickers, then shouldn't we be pushing for Hoosier for a product like this and not one that falls of the cliff like an F1 tire? The stickers seem to be a band-aid solution to a greater problem, which we as the customer are having to deal with.
If the goal is to have SM be an affordable racing series and the current problem is people using 2-3 sets of tires on a weekend, then it would seem the problem lies with the tires. Theoretically the SM8 is going to address this problem right? If it is, then shouldn't this negate the need for introducing a sticker system?
2019 SeDIV SMSE Champion
Here's the part I'm struggling with - Hoosier is the supplier, we are the customer. It seems we're trying to overcome a problem bourne by the suppliers product. If there are tires out there that don't have a significantly larger competitive advantage at 5-6 HCs vs stickers, then shouldn't we be pushing for Hoosier for a product like this and not one that falls of the cliff like an F1 tire? The stickers seem to be a band-aid solution to a greater problem, which we as the customer are having to deal with.
If the goal is to have SM be an affordable racing series and the current problem is people using 2-3 sets of tires on a weekend, then it would seem the problem lies with the tires. Theoretically the SM8 is going to address this problem right? If it is, then shouldn't this negate the need for introducing a sticker system?
While true I think we have real world problems to address. First I am not sure any tire fits your scenario of no advantage stickers vs 5-6 session tires. Even the toyo, new shaved 1/32 is faster than new full tread or 4-5 cycle tread. Several tracks where shave depth and cycles will make the same difference as Hoosier sticker vs 5 session.
We are on contract to Hoosier for at least the next 2.5 years in SCCA. As many have said. I love the tires and the support, just wich they were raceable for more sessions in our cars.
I think a tire that is truly raceable with our cars for 8-10 cycles or more is something we should be pushing for as well, but limiting the number of tires is also a vital part of the strategy to cut costs IMO. This would also help cut costs and level the playing field in NASA as well. For whatever reason, teh NASA races I attend are more like regionals and the tire wars aren't present at all. they are and would be at the Championships which is similar in terms of competition to SCCA super Tours. I think most will use 3 or more sets varying in age and shave depth.
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
Is it not time to release the new SM8?
Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean Machinery | OPM Autosports | Rossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes |
2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ
1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year
Is it not time to release the new SM8?
Testing is not complete
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
Is it not time to release the new SM8?
Or at least some test results?
2019 SeDIV SMSE Champion
While true I think we have real world problems to address. First I am not sure any tire fits your scenario of no advantage stickers vs 5-6 session tires. Even the toyo, new shaved 1/32 is faster than new full tread or 4-5 cycle tread. Several tracks where shave depth and cycles will make the same difference as Hoosier sticker vs 5 session.
We are on contract to Hoosier for at least the next 2.5 years in SCCA. As many have said. I love the tires and the support, just wich they were raceable for more sessions in our cars.
I think a tire that is truly raceable with our cars for 8-10 cycles or more is something we should be pushing for as well, but limiting the number of tires is also a vital part of the strategy to cut costs IMO. This would also help cut costs and level the playing field in NASA as well. For whatever reason, teh NASA races I attend are more like regionals and the tire wars aren't present at all. they are and would be at the Championships which is similar in terms of competition to SCCA super Tours. I think most will use 3 or more sets varying in age and shave depth.
Personally I'd take the HCs over shaving the RR for outright speed as I'm out to have fun at regionals (the RA-1 I hear is a different beast altogether in regards to shaving). I guess i'll just have to hold out for the SM8 and hope for the best. At the moment I'm using RRs to run practice days to offset the tire cost, still on the first set, can't say the same for the Hoosiers. If someone starts throwing tire money at the regionals, there's no reason stickers wont help as long as it can be administered.
2019 SeDIV SMSE Champion
One.... I would NEVER mount the sticker on the outside of the tire sidewall. I'd only mount it on the inside. Way too much "close" racing that would take a sticker off.... I'm not risking a DQ over a tire rub.
That and I am CERTAIN it would not take long for someone to figure out how to move a sticker from one tire to another... or to make duplicate stickers. This is SM, there isn't a competitive driver out there not looking for a mechanical advantage.... some have proven to be willing to take it further than others.
I do think Jim's solution is simple and could be effective, I just don't think we have the ability to implement it.
Maybe it's possible to skip the CRB and add this requirement directly to the Supps of a Majors race for a trial of the system?
____________________________
Maybe it's possible to skip the CRB and add this requirement directly to the Supps of a Majors race for a trial of the system?
no, it needs to go through the process..
SMAC>CRB>BOD before implementation
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
One.... I would NEVER mount the sticker on the outside of the tire sidewall. I'd only mount it on the inside. Way too much "close" racing that would take a sticker off.... I'm not risking a DQ over a tire rub.
That and I am CERTAIN it would not take long for someone to figure out how to move a sticker from one tire to another... or to make duplicate stickers. This is SM, there isn't a competitive driver out there not looking for a mechanical advantage.... some have proven to be willing to take it further than others.
I do think Jim's solution is simple and could be effective, I just don't think we have the ability to implement it.
There are tamper proof labels widely available through a number of label providers which would make it very tough for someone to remove and place on another tire or to duplicate. If that sticker were shaped so that it can fit low on the sidewall near the wheel it would be less vulnerable to getting "rubbed". It's not a perfect solution but I think the risks you mention can be greatly reduced.
I do think Jim's solution is simple and could be effective, I just don't think we have the ability to implement it.
This is why a one event/weekend test would be a logical next step. to see if it is feasible OR not.
Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users