207 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

No one is going to punish you for bumping

Maybe not, but I see an excellent protest opportunity. Let's just say you're trailing in the regional championship by 2 points and the points leader just happens to bumpdraft you the last race of the season. And furthermore, let's say you have in-car video that clearly shows this offense...

[James York]

Anyone experienced and good enough to be in the regional points championship and runner up positions would not stoop to such a tactic. Your hypothetical scenario will never happen.

[Bench Racer]

It would be real amusing if there were enough top prepped/driven by "COOL FOLKS" 1.6's that aligned like baby ducks & blew the doors off the 99 pluses.

Then we would see how long the current plates/weight rules would stay in place.

Of course the weight of the 1.6 has been adjusted for just such an occastion.

Kyle, YES, I believe there are x number of fast & furious 1.6's on the left coast.

drago, thanks for todays chuckle. Being that your video was a sales video how about you post some EastStreet 99 & 1.6 Dyno hp/tq sales graphs. Oh, graphs from your best 99 & best 1.6.

Now, how about some comments on how long the weight/plates rules would stay put when 1.6's aligned like baby ducks blew by the "COOL FOLKS" 99's.

[LarryKing]

Your hypothetical scenario will never happen.

Ya think? What if they really don't like each other? You give human nature a lot more credit than I James.

Now, how about some comments on how long the weight/plates rules would stay put when 1.6's aligned like baby ducks blew by the "COOL FOLKS" 99's.

I defer to the good Mr. York. (see quote at top of this post)

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Kyle, YES, I believe there are x number of fast & furious 1.6's on the left coast.

drago, thanks for todays chuckle. Being that your video was a sales video how about you post some EastStreet 99 & 1.6 Dyno hp/tq sales graphs. Oh, graphs from your best 99 & best 1.6.

Now, how about some comments on how long the weight/plates rules would stay put when 1.6's aligned like baby ducks blew by the "COOL FOLKS" 99's.

Do they race miatas In Hawaii?

[James York]

Ya think? What if they really don't like each other? You give human nature a lot more credit than I James.



I defer to the good Mr. York. (see quote at top of this post)

I don't see it happening, even with drivers that don't like each other. Nothing has changed, bumpdrafting wasn't suddenly made illegal in the SCCA yesterday, why hasn't it happened in the 8 years I have been doing this?

Your other comment about 1.6 and ducks I don't get. I don't make any rules. You'll have to inquire elsewhere as to when any adjustments will be made to the car years.

[Todd Green]

And what is it that you do that I should aspire to Todd?

tl;dr

Apparently keeping my posts concise and on point. So to try to sum it up:

1) You keep assuming we are talking about ourselves. Rules need to include the lowest common denominator, and there is a reason why they call it the "kill zone".

2) You said you wanted to outlaw drafting, not just bump drafting, but any drafting. That is what I was replying to. Big difference.

FWIW, our region (NASA) allows bump drafting. I've never bump drafted or gone out with a drafting partner in quali. So please stop reading into people's posts that we are talking about personal experience rather than generalities about what we feel would be best for the class.

[Jim Drago]

Now, how about some comments on how long the weight/plates rules would stay put when 1.6's aligned like baby ducks blew by the "COOL FOLKS" 99's.

As for the rules, whether Buras and Slattery walk the field or the top 99's walk them, the rules will be the same in 2013. Buy whatever car you feel you need for whatever track you plan to race at. I don't think NASA or SCCA could have made their intentions any more clear?

[Bench Racer]

Do they race miatas In Hawaii?

You went way to far left & obviously spent way to much time playing with the

[Tom Sager]

As for the rules, whether Buras and Slattery walk the field or the top 99's walk them, the rules will be the same in 2013. Buy whatever car you feel you need for whatever track you plan to race at. I don't think NASA or SCCA could have made their intentions any more clear?

Yeah but if bump drafting is approved for 1.6 cars only that could change everything.

[Jamz14]

Todd,

I never once said I wanted to outlaw drafting in racing. Please look and see. I said that I would gladly participate in Bding during the race, and I will even instruct my driver to do so in qualifying if that is what is going on. I said that my vote was for banning it in qualifying. Period.

Yes, I assume that you are talking about yourself ( or ourselves???, as you put it above ). Who else would you be speaking for? You emphatically stated that you think touching cars can be safer than not touching car in situations. When you say that, It is explicit that you speak for you. What situation is safer touching than not touching? Name one. I can name one where it is safer for you. If you go too deep in the corner and use my car to keep from going off . That would be safer for you, but not for me.

My views are really simple.

1. Technically speaking only, touching cars in any situation is inherently more dangerous than not touching. Just like touching the wall is inherently more dangerous than not touching it and staying on track.

2. Just because it is technically more dangerous, doesn't mean that I freak out with contact and want to spoil all your fun with BDing or outlaw it. I don't.

3. Valid arguments for BDing should not include safety as a benefit of BDing. Because of reason number 1.

4. Valid arguments could include things such as; it is fun, it adds a strategy dimension, it is visually exciting to people, it IS inherently more dangerous and therefore more exciting to people, ETC. All of which I can support.

5. Qualifying is different than a race and BDing and team tactics seem out of place there. So if I had a choice, I would ban it during qual.

6. If it is currently against regs, then it is currently against regs and should not be done. If everyone agrees to bend the regs, then everyone agrees to bend the regs and I have no problem with that. If one person does not agree, then it is against the regs if it says it is against the regs and is legitimately protestable if you risk ignoring the regs.

Doesn't this seem reasonable? Inclusive of most peoples views, and not a downer on fun?

[Rob Burgoon]

1. Technically speaking only, touching cars in any situation is inherently more dangerous than not touching. Just like touching the wall is inherently more dangerous than not touching it and staying on track.

2. Just because it is technically more dangerous, doesn't mean that I freak out with contact and want to spoil all your fun with BDing or outlaw it. I don't.

3. Valid arguments for BDing should not include safety as a benefit of BDing. Because of reason number 1.

4. Valid arguments could include things such as; it is fun, it adds a strategy dimension, it is visually exciting to people, it IS inherently more dangerous and therefore more exciting to people, ETC. All of which I can support.

5. Qualifying is different than a race and BDing and team tactics seem out of place there. So if I had a choice, I would ban it during qual.

6. If it is currently against regs, then it is currently against regs and should not be done. If everyone agrees to bend the regs, then everyone agrees to bend the regs and I have no problem with that. If one person does not agree, then it is against the regs if it says it is against the regs and is legitimately protestable if you risk ignoring the regs.

Doesn't this seem reasonable? Inclusive of most peoples views, and not a downer on fun?

Rebuttal
1. False statement. It's possible to be in a situation where striking the car ahead is safer than trying not to, such as a missed shift. Let alone my example of trying more passes instead of pushing.

2. see #1

3. see #1

4. see #1

5. "that's just like... your opinion, man" -Lebowski

6. James, what part of "unenforceable" is confusing here? Your region already decided what they want. Just leave it alone or throw paper already. Or better yet shelf it until your driver develops a little more and forms an experienced opinion either way.

[Ron Alan]

Todd,

I never once said I wanted to outlaw drafting in racing. Please look and see. I said that I would gladly participate in Bding during the race, and I will even instruct my driver to do so in qualifying if that is what is going on. I said that my vote was for banning it in qualifying. Period.

Yes, I assume that you are talking about yourself ( or ourselves???, as you put it above ). Who else would you be speaking for? You emphatically stated that you think touching cars can be safer than not touching car in situations. When you say that, It is explicit that you speak for you. What situation is safer touching than not touching? Name one. I can name one where it is safer for you. If you go too deep in the corner and use my car to keep from going off . That would be safer for you, but not for me.

My views are really simple.

1. Technically speaking only, touching cars in any situation is inherently more dangerous than not touching. Just like touching the wall is inherently more dangerous than not touching it and staying on track.

2. Just because it is technically more dangerous, doesn't mean that I freak out with contact and want to spoil all your fun with BDing or outlaw it. I don't.

3. Valid arguments for BDing should not include safety as a benefit of BDing. Because of reason number 1.

4. Valid arguments could include things such as; it is fun, it adds a strategy dimension, it is visually exciting to people, it IS inherently more dangerous and therefore more exciting to people, ETC. All of which I can support.

5. Qualifying is different than a race and BDing and team tactics seem out of place there. So if I had a choice, I would ban it during qual.

6. If it is currently against regs, then it is currently against regs and should not be done. If everyone agrees to bend the regs, then everyone agrees to bend the regs and I have no problem with that. If one person does not agree, then it is against the regs if it says it is against the regs and is legitimately protestable if you risk ignoring the regs.

Doesn't this seem reasonable? Inclusive of most peoples views, and not a downer on fun?

You have officially reached your 16 post limit and 12 pages...you are being unofficially bumped off this thread. Oh wait...is that legal?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

You have officially reached your 16 post limit and 12 pages...you are being unofficially bumped off this thread. Oh wait...is that legal?

Ron Alan For Modorator!!!!!!!!!

[pat slattery]

In qualifying at WKA events, if you attempt to draft with another kart and make no attempt to pass you loose your best qualifying lap. That puts an end to the drafting during qualifying. I like drafting during a race, but don't see a place for it in qualifying. Especially with many teams out there in big races, it put the independent guys (us, and many others) at a big disadvantage IMHO.

Pat

[Caveman-kwebb99]

We need somethign more exctitng to talk about! Who cares about this topic, and BS to you PAT, first time Front Runner comes to your trailer to say Shawn, in qualifying come out with us and lets team up... You be on that like stink on shit! For every team that is there, there are just as many private guys...

[Caveman-kwebb99]

mr mpr can you please finish up whatever you started here so we can discuss Monkey, and Clowns, and Cheeters, and Why Ron Alan is no longer teachign English??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[James York]

6. If it is currently against regs, then it is currently against regs and should not be done. If everyone agrees to bend the regs, then everyone agrees to bend the regs and I have no problem with that. If one person does not agree, then it is against the regs if it says it is against the regs and is legitimately protestable if you risk ignoring the regs.

Doesn't this seem reasonable? Inclusive of most peoples views, and not a downer on fun?

Looking at your qualifications listed in number 6, I see you have only one choice of action for satisfactory resolution in your eyes. Let me know how your first protest against a bumpdrafting driver turns out.

[MPR22]

mr mpr can you please finish up whatever you started here so we can discuss Monkey, and Clowns, and Cheeters, and Why Ron Alan is no longer teachign English??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Got back in town at 2:30 this morning from a 18.5 hour work day, please allowe to gather my thoughts and respond appropriately.

[Jamz14]

James, you need to read more clearly. I stated many times that I have no problem with it. I suggest that you can't bitch if someone does protest it if it is illegal.

Rob, You made the same point I did, yes, there are times when it is safer to use my car as a wall, but that isn't safer for the car being used as a wall for your mis-shift. What is safer for my car is for you to not miss the shift. And yours too BTW. And see above, I don't care if it is going on during the RACE. I don't care if you guys want to do it or don't. I really don't care if you guys team up in qualifying.

As matter of fact........ you guys win. I give up. I concede the point. Touching and bumping is way more safe than no contact.

Kwebb, you are successful. Consider me punted. I am checking out and leaving you guys to your much more stimulating conversation you engage in.

See you guys at the track.