563 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

To Mr. Stein, JD2, and anyone else who seamingly has unlimited free time and money to chase plastic trophies. As someone who works a full time job and freelances at night just so I can afford two set of tires and a half dozen entries per year...

 

Yippie for you.

[Sean - MiataCage]

Sean,

  I think he was referring to the 2011 Double National at Pacific where Zabinski won the first National of the weekend. I will let someone else tell the story because I don't know all of the facts and that car was um.... questionable.

 

Kyle

Ahh.... Yes, the infamous Dave Mead car.  It is a true statement that Ed Z did win the 1st National of the weekend in that car.  If I recall correctly it was doing double duty in another run group.  The time Ed ran was very close to a track record or maybe even a track record, not having been in a SM in years.  Watching and recording (video) the shift points for the car they were clearly not where the rest of the 99 cars were and we determined that the car had a modified computer and rev limiter.  Based on the way SCCA works,  you can not protest a car for a mechanical infraction after a race, you must do it prior to the race, so there was no way to protest it for the race it just won.

 

I am not a protest type of guy very often (ask Charbs) so we went to Ed Z and told him we would be protesting the car for the 2nd National race if he didn't get his shift points in line with where they should have been.  Mr Mead is an interesting guy and this is not the first run in with legality we have had with his cars.  They denied everything and said the car was legit.  For some strange reason the car was loaded up on a trailer and taken off site.  When it came back for all subsequent sessions the car was shifting at its proper point and it did not win or run at the times it had the day before.  I believe it was 1.0 to 1.5 off of the previous days times, but I'm getting old and can't completely remember.

 

I will not speak to the details of Charbs experience with that same car when he rented it in Portland last year, but lets just say that we again had computer issues and when confronted with it there were numerous threats of violence.  Charbs was the driver and was not the one threatening and can speak to how I handled the situation, how crappy a car it is, and what was done to make it legal.  Charbs is a stand up guy and is a man of his word and I have great respect for him for how he handled a crappy situation for all involved in a car that he did not own and probably had never seen before.

 

Dave Mead knows that I will protest any of his cars that race against us if they are not legit.  Dave has great drivers that drive for him, but so do I.  We use video, radar guns and other ways to validate the shenanigans we think may be happening and proceed accordingly.

At the end of the day we are racers and want to race heads up.  The last thing in the world I think any of us want as racers is to go out and run win a bunch of races without any competition.  If we get beat that is part of the game and my drivers will go over and shake the winning hand of the driver and congratulate them no matter who it is.

 

Charbs..... Please feel free to comment here and call me out or back me up.

 

Sean

[Kyle Freiheit]

Thanks Sean. I also liked the rear wing that was still on it from SSB.

 

Kyle

[Danny Steyn]

To Mr. Stein, JD2, and anyone else who seamingly has unlimited free time and money to chase plastic trophies. As someone who works a full time job and freelances at night just so I can afford two set of tires and a half dozen entries per year...

 

Yippie for you.

 

Yippie for me.

 

M&S. I arrived in the USA 18 years ago and lived in a van for over a year. Tried to figure out what worked and didn't, how to make a living. Had some ideas, some worked some failed, partnership went sour, made some money, lost even more. 15 years ago I had zero. Worked 16 hour days pretty much 7 days a week  with several businesses that finally took hold, and eventually made some money to start playing in 2006. Still work 3 jobs, travel 200,000 miles internationally a year, but find time to study and learn about this sport I am so fascinated with. Seventeen hour plane rides give you lots of time, but the jet lag wipes my memory too! Fortunately I have learned to get by with around 5 hours of sleep. Still scared to death that I will have to start over again before I am through. Seen this happen with so many small business owners. Medical bills, lawsuits,and more always lurking just around the corner ready to wipe you out, hope I can avoid them. So in the meantime ...... yippie for me!

 

As to the time and prep that we put into competing in this class. Its all just a personal choice, some have parenting responsibilities, some love watching TV, some just want to have fun and others are so totally obsessed that they commit every waking moment to trying to make up for obvious talent deficiencies. Wont find me criticizing anyone for the choices they make. But for the most part I suspect that those up front are pretty much obsessed with it. Some do it with less time and money invested, others require more.  blah blah blah

[Ron Alan]

To Mr. Stein, JD2, and anyone else who seamingly has unlimited free time and money to chase plastic trophies. As someone who works a full time job and freelances at night just so I can afford two set of tires and a half dozen entries per year...

 

Yippie for you.

 

Productive! Way to contribute.         

[LarryKing]

Productive! Way to contribute

 

Ditto.

[Rob Burgoon]

Ahh.... Yes, the infamous Dave Mead car.  It is a true statement that Ed Z did win the 1st National of the weekend in that car.  If I recall correctly it was doing double duty in another run group.  The time Ed ran was very close to a track record or maybe even a track record, not having been in a SM in years.  Watching and recording (video) the shift points for the car they were clearly not where the rest of the 99 cars were and we determined that the car had a modified computer and rev limiter.  Based on the way SCCA works,  you can not protest a car for a mechanical infraction after a race, you must do it prior to the race, so there was no way to protest it for the race it just won.

 

 

Sean

 

I kinda get why, but it's a bullshit rule.  How am I supposed to know joe cheater changed ECUs 10 minutes before the race?

[Jim Drago]

I kinda get why, but it's a bullshit rule.  How am I supposed to know joe cheater changed ECUs 10 minutes before the race?

 

 

This is not exactly true. You can protest this post race.  But you better have a good case for it.  Like rev limit or fuel smell etc. 

[Rob Burgoon]

This is not exactly true. You can protest this post race.  But you better have a good case for it.  Like rev limit or fuel smell etc. 

 

Still bullshit, what's to stop someone say.. changing cams between qually and the race?

[DrDomm]

This is not exactly true. You can protest this post race.  But you better have a good case for it.  Like rev limit or fuel smell etc. 

 

I'm still trying to figure out basic stuff, but even I can drive behind someone and get a sense of where he's shifting.

[Jim Drago]

Still bullshit, what's to stop someone say.. changing cams between qually and the race?

What is to stop them from doing most anything?  Or just coming with cams and/or an STL engine and peddling in qualifying? I have said this 100 times before.. If someone wants to cheat, they will cheat and you will never stop them, regardless of any rule ever written. Full weekly Nascar teardowns are not practical and will never happen.

 

The cars are SO close right now, it is painfully obvious when someone is well outside the rules and very easy to see. If someone needs to go to that level to beat me,  Good for them is my feeling. If it really irks me, I will spend the money and start at the valve cover and go to the oil pan, send in a fuel sample and the ECU for testing and just pay the 5000 plus it costs. If I am that sure of what I think I am seeing, I am not losing my money. 

Jim

[Kyle Freiheit]

Just a data point, here is the thrust chart with the 99 and 01+ on a 4.1 gear. To me it seems the shapes of the curves are atleast closer as well as the shift points. Even though hey are not on top of each other a adjustment of weights/plates might get it even closer. This obviously does not take into account aero etc.

 

 

 

[FTodaro]

Oh bullshit.  Having an engine makes everything easier.

its never the driver

[john mueller]

The cars are SO close right now, it is painfully obvious when someone is well outside the rules and very easy to see . 

 

This was in full effect Sunday at the March SoCal NASA event.  It was so obvious something was different with one car when it drove out and away from the draft and gaped drafting cars (in & out of class).  EVERYONE saw it and Tech did something about it.

[Rob Burgoon]

What is to stop them from doing most anything?  Or just coming with cams and/or an STL engine and peddling in qualifying? I have said this 100 times before.. If someone wants to cheat, they will cheat and you will never stop them, regardless of any rule ever written. Full weekly Nascar teardowns are not practical and will never happen.

 

The cars are SO close right now, it is painfully obvious when someone is well outside the rules and very easy to see. If someone needs to go to that level to beat me,  Good for them is my feeling. If it really irks me, I will spend the money and start at the valve cover and go to the oil pan, send in a fuel sample and the ECU for testing and just pay the 5000 plus it costs. If I am that sure of what I think I am seeing, I am not losing my money. 

Jim

 

Why can't I protest them after the race then?  The rule is crap.

[Rob Burgoon]

its never the driver

 

Good driver or bad driver, having a great engine still makes passing much easier.

[Jim Drago]

Why can't I protest them after the race then?  The rule is crap.

 

You can protest after the race

[Kyle Freiheit]

I like the idea of having an impound where everyone pops hoods and trunks and its encouraged to have a look around at the competition. Years ago I went to Nationals in Autocross and they had everyone pop hoods and trunks AND pull off a wheel. I know pulling a wheel isn't feasible but popping hoods and trunks at every race sure would be a nice tradition.

 

Kyle

[Rob Burgoon]

You can protest after the race

 

And when the staff tells me to jump in a lake since it wasn't anything obvious like smelly fuel or lack of a rev limiter and my protest is too late?

[Jim Drago]

 If your protest is well founded, they will hear. Well they should hear it.