563 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

 If your protest is well founded, they will hear. Well they should hear it. 

 

We should trade SoM for a couple weekends  It would be fun!

[pat slattery]

hey Jim 

First let me answer your question. Yes I think both our cars are really close now, closer than ever. Not too much difference, but I do think your car was a bit off this past weekend at Road Atlanta.

Second let me say thanks for posting the relative dyno plots. There is a LOT of information in those comparative plots, most already widely understood, but perhaps not by all

So let me ramble on with my own opinions, for those that have any interest ...... as I said just my opinions
 

 

• The 01 era car appears to be the easiest car to drive, I have also heard that it handles well, and I suspect that there are several 01 builds in the works. It just that the HP falls flat at high RPM, but people have noticed that the 01 can be competitive.        

• The 1.6 car is down on torque low down, but its torque survives better in the important RPM range where all the others are falling off quickly, and its horsepower continues to build. To get the 1.6 car to work, you have to keep it “on the pipe” (old two stroke terminology for peaky engine). If you can keep it on the boil, with the low weight and better handling characteristics, it should be a decent weapon. (see talent comment below)

• IMHO the 99 era car is currently the best of both compromises. It builds its torque low down, so if you screw up you can get yourself out of it (where the 90 will require a down shift) but in reality its torque falls off fairly quickly in the RPM range we spend most time in. But its horsepower is decent in this RPM range, whereas the 01 falls off quickly after 6,000 RPM 

 

So if we raced on a track         

 

• with lots of time spent in the 4,000 – 5,500 RPM range, consider an ‘01 or ‘99
• with lots of time spent in the 5,500 – 7,000 RPM range don’t get an 01, consider a 1.6 or 99
• and on a really tight track where handling, weight transfer and agility is required, consider a 1.6

So here are my observations on what has been revealed by those willing to share, and what I have learned myself.
        

• I am fortunate that my cars typically sell what it costs me to build them, so if I suspect that there is a faster model year for me, then I will sell mine and build another.
• Drago and others are in the same category. This category is simple..... and states that those that can, will always select and build the best car to make it easier to win. NO ONE ever does the opposite.
• My advice to anyone who wants to listen, is ….. take a look at the dyno curves above, factor in your skill level and your penchant for making minor but still time wasting mistakes, look at the tracks where you will be spending most of your time, and decide what weapon you want to bring to this fight.
• Then sell your house, sell your wife, sell your first born, and build the car think it’s gonna take to win.
• Set aside a small fortune to fund the travel, entry fees, test days, and tires its gonna take to win.
• NOTE - never forget that some drivers are way more talented than others. Buras has way more talent in his pinkie than I have in my whole body. Buras can get the performance out of his 1.6. I know I cannot, and believe me, I tried. Back in 2009, I thought the hot ticket to win the SIC would be the 1.6. On the test day, Fowler was lapping his 1.6 rental faster than I could lap my ’99. So I rented the 1.6 and never came within 2 second of what I could do in my ’99. Not enough talent, plain and simple.

 

So, if you have a car, and it may or may not be the car to have for the track you are racing, how do you make up for the deficiencies in horsepower/torque/tire budget/talent/setup and all the other variables that ultimately decide your finishing position?

I can only tell you what I am doing, and what I am listing below is actually quite embarrassing, as I wish it wasn't quite this difficult.

 

• In order for me to run up front with the fast guys in SM, I have to spend lots of time on pre-race test days, iRacing simulator time, data analysis and other prep. The test days cost money
• Buras can show up anytime and be fast. I cannot. So I typically put in around 20-30 hours in the weeks leading up to a race in studying my previous video and data, other people's video and data, lots of YouTube videos of other car classes’ lines around the track, and if the track exists in iRacing, then I spend a lot of time in iRacing.
• In the week before the event, I attend Two-Three University every single day. Or more to the point, I take out my daily driver Miata and spend many hours doing hundreds of 2-3 up-shifts if I am going to a track with 2-3 up-shifts. I am embarrassed that I need to do this, but if I don't, I screw up my shifts. And at the front it only takes one missed shift to lose the draft.
• My personal track-notes are copious. Literally hundreds of pages acquired over the last few years, with lots of annotations from instructors and pro drivers giving their approach to each turn. When I was starting out I watched Lamb, Buras and the Pombos, and they made me aware of just how much detail they put in to their track notes.
• In several cases I have vastly different track notes where one drivers emphasis is completely at odds with the other. Note my previous comments to Drago on the Pombo Turn 3 approach a Road Atlanta. Randy Pobst made some really interesting observations on the Spec Miata platform after driving Roger Burdette’s car there (relative to the accepted wisdom pertaining other cars he has driven there).
• In the weeks leading to a race, I call or email the Grand-Am racers and instructors I know, and ask if any track conditions changed, or if they noticed a change in the way that the rubber laid down during their race, or if any changes that surprised them, etc. Very often a DE event or even Grand-Am was on our tracks just before us. 
• I speak to the tire reps to find out if they are hearing anything different from their drivers at the track this weekend. Often tires will respond differently to expectations and drivers will go to the reps to ask what others are doing. At COTA the Hoosier guys were very helpful and their knowledge paid dividends. And at the recent Road Atlanta Majors, the Hoosier tire performed exactly the OPPOSITE of what it had done every previous weekend at Road Atlanta. But we fortunately had learned about this earlier on.

 

So for a relative newbie, what I am trying to do is surround myself with lots of data, as well as lots of experience and advice (much of it contrarian) and I am hoping that great car prep (courtesy Tom Fowler at OPM), a great engine courtesy of Mike Rossini, and a superb data system courtesy of Traqmate, will compensate for any innate talent deficiencies on my part.

I am in awe of those who can just show up and whip my ass without putting in the time. Some things you just have to accept, not matter how difficult it is. Yup there are several drivers in this class that are just flat-out better drivers than I am, and some have whipped my ass with way less car and motor than I had, but that’s not gonna stop me trying to beat them……… blah blah blah

 

Have fun, tear at it guys....
 

Danny, even though I bitch about parity, that is one of the best post on this site

 

Thanks

 

Pat Slattery

[Bench Racer]

 

Dave
First of all the car had a coil connector come loose, definitely our mistake, not so sure I would call it taking a $hit, but ok. 
 
Secondly, what did you expect that car to do?  Not sure how that is all that relevant or helps your cause though.  The rules were completely different then as well. It was also 2009? Not sure how that is relevant now if it even supported your case, I think it hurts your case actually.   So in all seriousness, what are you trying to say there? I am confused by the point you are trying to make and I am not busting balls.

Jim, first off I wasn't putting anyone down or attempting to bust any balls.

Second, I forgot the coil connection was the issue with big bird and said the car took a MINOR $hit.

Third, Sean seems to know the story of the Clown saying someone in a 99 came in and (my word) spanked whoever in the north west.

Fourth, I'm older than dirt that you keep reminding everyone so I do really forget stuff.

Fifth, without back-reading IIRC the overall communication of top 1.6's and 99's came about when I asked how many of each were on the left coast and things grew directionaly from there. I had no case/cause/or anything special and I don't have any case right now.

Sixth, had the SCCA implemented a process of tracking spec line cars for each event I could look at entrie sheets and see who drives what and EVERYONE would know how many cars do what at which events. Some of us haven't learned exactly who drives what. Remember when the Gorilla brought one of each to Topeka, again maybe my mind is faulty and he had only a 1.8 and a 99. Fading memories and who really cares.

Seventh, no need to get into a justification process as deep as you did on this subject when responding to me on a subject of this nature.

Eight, I had decided to back off on posting purly because you maned up and posted some dyno graphs.

Ninth, I will chose how I deal with the parity subject as I have in the past. I know much of what it takes to run up front and when I talk parity, I like to think in terms of everything else being equal except the present subject. No not this side track subject, a real parity subject.

I have enjoyed the last couple days where IMHJ there has been a certain ammount of openness.

I spend time on the site for fun and to sift through the bits for a trinket here and there. The dyno graphs, be they the best or somewhat off I don't really care because they confirmed things for me, a trinket.

[tburas56]

Since we are in the season of sharing

 

What works for me before a race…

 

Find my race shit...

Buy Danny’s used tires…

Saw IRacing at PRI

What is a test day?

Don Julio straight up

Right before going out to qual for the first time, Ask Tom what setup he put on the car.

Give Danny Grief

Ask Tom to make changes before qual.

Ask Jim how long a motor should last or when should you Dyno? It has only been 3 thousand race miles.

5 Year old shocks and a Mazda Speed diff with 5 seasons on it. Ask Tom if is time to change?

½ of George Munson’s exhaust, ½ BSI and ½ found run over on the track. Perfect. Still no Dyno.

Give Tom more grief about setup before going out for the first time, make more changes.

Watch Danny go over more data from Test Day.

Watch Tom pull his hair out, then eat Tracey’s delicious food, oh time to go qual.

Give Danny more grief, then ask if I can look at his IPad.

Laugh at Tom

Wonder what it means when Jim and Craig talk strategies

shinny…

Squirrel…

[Bench Racer]

Continious laughing while reading, driver you are the man. If the friken emotioncons worked I'd have thrown one or two into this.

[Danny Steyn]

Since we are in the season of sharing

 

What works for me before a race…

 

Find my race shit...

Buy Danny’s used tires…

Saw IRacing at PRI

What is a test day?

Don Julio straight up

Right before going out to qual for the first time, Ask Tom what setup he put on the car.

Give Danny Grief

Ask Tom to make changes before qual.

Ask Jim how long a motor should last or when should you Dyno? It has only been 3 thousand race miles.

5 Year old shocks and a Mazda Speed diff with 5 seasons on it. Ask Tom if is time to change?

½ of George Munson’s exhaust, ½ BSI and ½ found run over on the track. Perfect. Still no Dyno.

Give Tom more grief about setup before going out for the first time, make more changes.

Watch Danny go over more data from Test Day.

Watch Tom pull his hair out, then eat Tracey’s delicious food, oh time to go qual.

Give Danny more grief, then ask if I can look at his IPad.

Laugh at Tom

Wonder what it means when Jim and Craig talk strategies

shinny…

Squirrel…

 

Priceless!!!      

[screaming monkey]

THE END...

[FTodaro]

sounds to me like one of the unwritten keys to success "untill today" is to give Danny Greif I think that is an excellent Idea, we should all start doing that on track too.

[Ron Alan]

Ditto.

Doh! Touche!

[Ron Alan]

Since we are in the season of sharing

 

What works for me before a race…

 

Find my race shit...

Buy Danny’s used tires…

Saw IRacing at PRI

What is a test day?

Don Julio straight up

Right before going out to qual for the first time, Ask Tom what setup he put on the car.

Give Danny Grief

Ask Tom to make changes before qual.

Ask Jim how long a motor should last or when should you Dyno? It has only been 3 thousand race miles.

5 Year old shocks and a Mazda Speed diff with 5 seasons on it. Ask Tom if is time to change?

½ of George Munson’s exhaust, ½ BSI and ½ found run over on the track. Perfect. Still no Dyno.

Give Tom more grief about setup before going out for the first time, make more changes.

Watch Danny go over more data from Test Day.

Watch Tom pull his hair out, then eat Tracey’s delicious food, oh time to go qual.

Give Danny more grief, then ask if I can look at his IPad.

Laugh at Tom

Wonder what it means when Jim and Craig talk strategies

shinny…

Squirrel…

After the first line I kept waiting to find this line..."Take a race Crap"  

[Ron Alan]

This was in full effect Sunday at the March SoCal NASA event.  It was so obvious something was different with one car when it drove out and away from the draft and gaped drafting cars (in & out of class).  EVERYONE saw it and Tech did something about it.

I heard that car is for sale  

[LarryKing]

Mr. Steyn, I owe you an apology. Your polite reply illustrates how little I know about you, but by all indications you are a gentleman.

 

All work and no play makes Moose a very dull boy.

 

When does Buras make the donuts? (Seriously, does he ever bring samples to the track?)

[Bench Racer]

When does Buras make the donuts? (Seriously, does he ever bring samples to the track?)

Neat equipment at Krispy Kreme with the product being branded long ago. No, not texas style.

[Craig Berry]

Since we are in the season of sharing
 
What works for me before a race…
 
Find my race shit...
Buy Danny’s used tires…
Saw IRacing at PRI
What is a test day?
Don Julio straight up
Right before going out to qual for the first time, Ask Tom what setup he put on the car.
Give Danny Grief
Ask Tom to make changes before qual.
Ask Jim how long a motor should last or when should you Dyno? It has only been 3 thousand race miles.
5 Year old shocks and a Mazda Speed diff with 5 seasons on it. Ask Tom if is time to change?
½ of George Munson’s exhaust, ½ BSI and ½ found run over on the track. Perfect. Still no Dyno.
Give Tom more grief about setup before going out for the first time, make more changes.
Watch Danny go over more data from Test Day.
Watch Tom pull his hair out, then eat Tracey’s delicious food, oh time to go qual.
Give Danny more grief, then ask if I can look at his IPad.
Laugh at Tom
Wonder what it means when Jim and Craig talk strategies
shinny…
Squirrel…

Todd, i am in tears! very funny! also thanks for sharing all your race day secrets! i will no doubt try the Don Julio strategy!

[Chris70]

Danny`s post should be mandatory reading for every SM driver driver not consistently running at the front, should be an eye opener to many.

As for Todd`s post , it should be mandatory to all the the drivers that while consistently running up front still look for things to drive us poor wrenches crazy.

Great reading, and Todd`s musings can give Charb a running for his money, I just love sarcasm.

Cheers

Ademir

S.A.C. racing

[Jim Drago]

sounds to me like one of the unwritten keys to success "untill today" is to give Danny Greif I think that is an excellent Idea, we should all start doing that on track too.

 

Works for me too  

[guest driver]

Since we are in the season of sharing

 

What works for me before a race…

 

Find my race shit...

Buy Danny’s used tires…

Saw IRacing at PRI

What is a test day?

Don Julio straight up

Right before going out to qual for the first time, Ask Tom what setup he put on the car.

Give Danny Grief

Ask Tom to make changes before qual.

Ask Jim how long a motor should last or when should you Dyno? It has only been 3 thousand race miles.

5 Year old shocks and a Mazda Speed diff with 5 seasons on it. Ask Tom if is time to change?

½ of George Munson’s exhaust, ½ BSI and ½ found run over on the track. Perfect. Still no Dyno.

Give Tom more grief about setup before going out for the first time, make more changes.

Watch Danny go over more data from Test Day.

Watch Tom pull his hair out, then eat Tracey’s delicious food, oh time to go qual.

Give Danny more grief, then ask if I can look at his IPad.

Laugh at Tom

Wonder what it means when Jim and Craig talk strategies

shinny…

Squirrel…

 

hey bue-ras, I remember the days when u ran every session of every test day, studied the data before during and after each session, drove Rob I and Rob II crazy with set up changes every session, got high from exhaust fumes from the pre race multiple dyno runs with Stuey ... and yes, always laughing with Major Tom ....

nowadays experience (old age) and cunning gets u by ... with a little help from don Julio

[Danny Steyn]

Carlos 

thanks for that. I had a sneaking suspicion that BUUUUUURAAAAS didnt wake up one day and find out he was blisteringly fast!!!

[Danny Steyn]

Mr. Steyn, I owe you an apology. Your polite reply illustrates how little I know about you, but by all indications you are a gentleman.

 

All work and no play makes Moose a very dull boy.

 

When does Buras make the donuts? (Seriously, does he ever bring samples to the track?)

 

Moose, none needed, but thanks anyway. J

What I really should have posted was that we are all VERY different. We all approach the sport of motor racing with very different desires and different agendas. Some for thrills and fun, some for fame and glory, and many other motivators.

There are some drivers that really, really, really want to win, and they will always make significant sacrifices in terms of time, family, work, money, and flat out want it so badly that they chase everything that they think might make them faster. I have known non-religious sportsmen that have prayed to the heavens before an event, just in case it might have made a difference!!!

Some drivers might not want it quite that much. They look at the plastic trophy and say, ehhhh that's not worth that amount of sacrifice, I am just here for the fun.

But for others, it’s everything, and they just want it more so they chase it harder, and they do the work.

To me the trophy is meaningless.

My personal agenda is very simple – I want to continuously raise my standard of self respect. Last year a 1:42.6 was the best I could do at Road Atlanta. This year I need to figure what it’s going to take to get into the 41’s?

That’s what drives me

And in my case I am trying to make up for my lack of experience (and lack of talent), with as much seat time as possible, and by putting in the work that I need to do.

For the first three years I ran every 1-1/2 to 3 hour enduro I could, as well as all the regional races. I would always have an agenda in the enduro. For the first 10 laps I would work on Turns 1-3, next 10 laps work on turns 4-6 etc. Then I would go back to the trailer and study the data in 10 lap intervals. I found that I cannot work on all the corners at once, and I would never be able to remember clearly what I was doing on lap 27 that gave me my  best exit out of turn 7 and resulted in the best entry speed into T10A, unless I had a very strict plan that I was adhering to. And it was amazing how much that plan helped me learn each turn in sequence.

The seat time helped me hugely and it still does today. Drago, Charbs, and many others run as many run groups as they can every weekend. Believe me, they dislike spending the money as much as anyone, but they are very focused on being up front and they know that the more seat time they put in, the sharper they will be.

As a somewhat believer in Malcolm Gladwell’s 10,000 hours theory, I would love to be able to put in the 10,000 hours it will take to make me really competitive. But I don’t have that sort of budget.

But what I can afford to do, is invest 20-30 hours per week, driving the iRacing simulator, study my video and data. This sacrifice of personal time I can afford, and hopefully it will pay off and maybe one day I will be able to come out of Turn 10B in the lead on the last lap of a Majors!

[granracing]

Now this is a depressing thread! Totally subscribed to whatever Todd does. Not at all saying I don't respect what you and others do Danny with a budget and time.

This year is going to be an interesting experiement with Kessler Engineering, Mike Lo, and myself teaming up to see what can be done on a low budget, lack of track time, against the the "big boys". I'd love to know any tips that might help with this effort and how you can compete Todd against some of that.

Oh, Danny, you so need to write an article(s) for my publication. Very nice write up.