310 replies to this topic

[Waterboy]

No headbanging here, just trying to collect and analyze the available information as objectively as possible, then compare my conclusions to the largely unsupported claims on both sides. On what part do you not agree?

The main part that I do not agree with is that we should have two SM classes.  And yes SM-SE and SM2 are SM classes with a few extra letters added.

[Waterboy]

Enough talk, we have way too much talk on this site and very little action. I grew up with the belief "put your money where your mouth is” so here goes… I race with MEATHEAD Racing in the WDCR where SSM is hugely successful and should be the model for 1.6 classes across the country not SMSE, SM2 or another me too class, this is unique and different. I’m willing to put up $1,000 of my own money towards the cost for a racer to come experience SSM.  MEATHEAD Racing will supply the car, it will be spec and at the horse power limit, most likely a previous race winner so there is no doubt, we will corner balance and set up to your liking upon arrival. You need to pay the entry fee and assume liability for the car, just like any other rental., you need to have some skin in the game. The individual will be selected based on the likelihood and ability to influence the region they come from that they should adopt SSM rules, the current region thinking of me too classes is short sighted and splinters the class.

 

PM me here with why you think it should be  you and Meathead and I, along with possibly a couple others, will decide who it should be.  No whiners allowed!  This really needs to be someone that truly wants to see what it is all about and do something with it!

 

Jim Drago if you think this post should be it's own or located somewhere else do as  you wish.

[Ron Alan]

Sealed engines are not cheaper!!! There is no savings in a sealed engine program.

Depends James...In the San Francisco region where SSM has as many entries as SMT, I would venture to guess at least half the motors are junkyard(original to car)motors that are sealed. Granted, they may not make the max power allowed but other than the $300 to seal I would say that is a pretty cheap motor

 

Interesting information for those around the country as to our local region and how it is set up. When the National(Majors)tire went to Hoosier...we did not as a region at first(cost). Many wanted to be on the "real race tire" and finally got there wish when those in the know knew the runoffs would be coming West. The SM6 sucked and was quickly unpopular even among the top guys...the SM7 was better but only being driven by those going to the runoffs as SMT was re-introduced and most regional guys ran this class which was on Toyo RR. Our numbers didnt go down just had 3 classes to choose from!

 

All that time SSM was on the RA1. Laguna 2014 runoffs come and go. Our region announced only SMT and SSM in region for 2015(no SM). Ironically a small number of people wanted SM...not because they were going to go to Daytona, but because they wanted to use tires they had(Hoosiers)so the region caved and put SM back as an entry for the 2 or 3 that bitched. It did also help a few out of towners who only came with Hoosiers. They then gave a winner flag every weekend to the same person. The other thing region did was allow RR's or RA1 for SSM. Initial price is no different really and the RR has proved to be as quick later in its life as it is in the beginning.

I'm positive one of the reasons our class(classes) has maintained steady entries regionally(most recently) is the decision to stay on 1 tire which has proven to be popular among the more frugal crowd! And still the largest class on the west coast...even if under a few names!

 

Sad to say Majors out West last year in SM was sad...and we didnt have any reps at Daytona. 

[Steve Scheifler]

From what I have learned during conversations with my east coast friends;

SSM was built on the premise of what SM was originally thought to be. Low cost, low modification, tight competition. The SSM group has kept to that philosophy. No rules creap. No expensive parts. No special grease. They compete with each other. Not against each other. Creative rules interpritation is frowned upon. If you built a $30k SSm you would shunned.

SM competes very hard against each other. The stated class philosophies may be similar. But the interpritation is totally different. In SM pushing the envelope is the norm. If Danny has it, Jim wants it. When Jim gets it he will sell it to everyone else. And the cost escalates. Nothing wrong with that, but a totally different mindset than what I think SSM drivers have. It all goes back to the "tech shed legal" days.

From my understanding, there is virtually zero crossover between SM and SSM on a given weekend.

I have never even seen a SSM race, but the guys who race them , LOVE IT. And they do not wish to race a SM.

Dave

And I think that is totally reasonable, honorable and plausible. But, if true it is primarily the people who make it more affordable, not the written rules. To say that the "tighter" rules and no rules creep makes it more affordable just doesn't really explain what's going on.

Given that, if everyone one in SMSE were to play by the same spirit and intent, there is no reason it should not work just as well.

[Mike Collins]

Somebody correct me here, I think it's not a majors class because it doesn't have the number nation wide but..

 

SSM Participation numbers in the WDCR alone would make it one of the largest classes in the country... 81 different participants in 2015 with 597 entries...

[Mike Collins]

SSM is NOT a me too class, it does not race on the track with SM, you cannot "double dip" the cars are not the same...

[Mike Collins]

using 2014 numbers SSM is the 5th largest regional class by attendance compared to other classes combining nationwide numbers... 5th largest in the country and we only run it one region...think we have something figure out????

[Johnny D]

Cool, Mike, thanks for the numbers.

 

It's big out here, I didn't know the requirements.

 

So SSM a national class for Majors ??

 

J~

[Highwayracer]

using 2014 numbers SSM is the 5th largest regional class by attendance compared to other classes combining nationwide numbers... 5th largest in the country and we only run it one region...think we have something figure out????

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I and others have been working to establish SSM in SEDIV.  We see that the class works when properly administered.  We had plans to petition the SARRC committee for an opportunity to present a proposal at the annual meeting to establish SSM as a divisional class.  SMSE being dropped in our lap without the opportunity to make the case for SSM is why some people are upset - the system did not work the way we thought it was supposed to work.

 

At this point, we apparently only have the opportunity to work with individual regions, which we will do, or compete in the Carolinas Cup Pro Series (CCPS), which recognizes the class (as well as the WDC region SSM).

 

Ultimately, we'd like to be able to run a series including the WDC region guys, though we haven't gotten to the point of discussing that with them. 

[Highwayracer]

By the way, for those interested there is a new SSM page on the book of faces at https://www.facebook...SSMiata?ref=hl 

[James York]

Cool, Mike, thanks for the numbers.

 

It's big out here, I didn't know the requirements.

 

So SSM a national class for Majors ??

 

J~

 

I will bet you anything the CRB and BOD will never approve another class for Miata to qualify for the Runoffs, since its just a spinoff.  Its a great regional idea, but I am sure they would respond back with "Your Miata in eligible in SM, thank you for your input"

[Johnny D]

I don't think so either but would be interesting if a bunch of SSMers wanted to run Majors.

Does, entry $$$ change their minds ??

J~

[Johnny D]

Heard of Rationals ??

How about Rajors ?? 

 

J~

[Jim Drago]

I will bet you anything the CRB and BOD will never approve another class for Miata to qualify for the Runoffs, since its just a spinoff.  Its a great regional idea, but I am sure they would respond back with "Your Miata in eligible in SM, thank you for your input"

absolutely/positively correct. We have been trying to cut for years. they wont add another Sm class basically

[dwibes]

Tim or Mike...Please enlighten us on SSM, I truly don't know..If you woke up this morning with the goal of winning next seasons SSM championship. What would you budget for building this car, not using any left overs etc, starting from scratch.Jim

I did just that the winter of 2012. Purchased a clean roller and built the car ground up. All my labor, down to the tub. The car could have been dipped but I decided to do it the mechnical way. So in essence it was an east street ground up build... Painted undercarriage, powder coated suspension pieces, new sub frames, all new bushings, lots of parts from you... the list could go on and on, again think of it the way you built your white majors car.. 18-20k is right about where I finished up with everything and I was keeping track of my spending. I won two MARRS championships with the car 2nd a third and am usuallly a contentder no matter who is racing or what hot shoe guest driver shows up. That's my reality
If I had to sell the car tomorrow I don't think I could get much more than 13K for it and that may be a little high. Just the way it is. Are there cars built for 10-15k that beat me or run with me, sure there are. Maybe they are not as nice, maybe they don't run as well alone, but they are right there. I know you can buy an old well built 1.6 SM with a bunch of spares for 8-10k put 2k into it and win in SSM.
I carry a spare trans, diff and engine to most all races. I know after my initial investent I can run the full MARRS series for about 10K, practice days and all, and be one of the racers competing for the champoinship at the end.

I would love to run in SM, I would love to run in the majors, but I dont have the money for it. What I do now is racing to the limit of my budget, and I am lucky enough to be in a region that has a good turn out, and on many wekends is "the race to watch" and the race to be in..
People can be so cynical about gaming the dyno or what if these rules don't work etc... Well, we have found a way to make it work and it is some of the most competitive racing in the country, no doubt. To the nay sayers.. Why not find a champion in your region to pioneer something like this and invest your time in making it work. Its been proven to work else where and there is already an exisiting foundation. People like myself and Collins, Lamb etc. would be happy to share what has and hasn't worked for us. Maybe instead of going to away races and bringing 30 SSM cars we will join your 30, look how the size of that field just grew... how about a twenty plus car count at the ARRC for SSM That wouldn't be too much fun...

[Steve Scheifler]

Shocked that anyone would seriously think about making SSM a Majors class, I assumed at first it was sarcasm. It might take awhile, but in the end a lot of currently satisfied racers would be asking "WTF happened to our class?".

[dwibes]

Qualifying for the Labor day weekend..

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[bdavissi]

Hello all. My name is Brandon and I crew for RP Performance during Marrs weekends. I have been lurking on this board for years and have been impressed by the information that comes from this great website. I can attest that watching and working on mostly Ssm class has been a great experience for me. Close racing is definitely what this class offers and it can be done for low cost. That is one of the reasons I purchased a car earlier this year and hope to complete my driving school next spring. The beauty of this class is the cost effectiveness that it offers. I purchased my car from one of our customers for 7500 dollars and put Brian Price in it for the labor day race. He had a 5th, 4th and 2nd place during the weekend. Mind you he came in second place after the transmission lost fifth gear and had trouble going into 3rd. So it can be said that a good car can be purchased and raced competitively for next to nothing.

[RacerX]

Qualifying for the Labor day weekend..

 

Todd - you're on the list, care to comment on the quality of cars and level of racing you have experienced in this and other SSM races you've participated in at WDC?

[Jonathan Davis]

I don't usually participate much in these discussions, but I'd like to throw in my two cents on SM budgets. Sure there are guys with $40k+ builds, but nobody needs to spend that for a front running car. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but I think I can legitimately claim that a low to medium budget racer can run near the front.

 

I bought my 1.6 five years ago and my NB two years ago for a combined total of less than $30k. Both are very good, race winning cars, though the NB is definitely better preped.

I bought all my own setup equipment and a tire machine for around $2k and haven't paid a dime for alignments or tire mounting in five years. I do all my own work, except motor and transmission building. I work out of a two car garage in the suburbs. I've never paid for coaching. I've never showed up to a Majors with more than one set of sticker tires. I haven't added up the numbers for obvious reasons, but my season budget is in the vicinity of $10k.

 

Granted the time commitment is enormous. And I rely more than I would prefer on the generosity of Drago, Fowler, and especially Mike Rossini for expert advice and assistance at the track. But don't tell me you need to spend a fortune to get on the podium.