98 replies to this topic

[Danica Davison]

Attention all South East Spec Miata drivers:

Tired of buying Hoosiers every weekend to stay competitive? You want a tire that you can run for several weekends without a large drop off in performance? Well, you are in luck! With the help of Jeff Labounty spearheading this initiative, Regional/SEDiv officials, driver feedback, and Toyo Tires, we now have a new regional class in the South East … SMT (Toyo)!! The goal of this initiative is to lower costs and to help bring the field closer together in terms of tire performance.

Starting at the ARRC in early November, you can run in SMT at all regionals in the Southeast Division. All cars must meet the Spec Miata Specifications in the GCR, but have to use the Toyo Proxes RR Tires (205x50x15).

With the Toyos having less of a drop off in performance from one session/weekend to the next, this will lower the costs and hopefully increase the entries in the field. Sounds great, right? BUT WAIT … THERE’S MORE!

Toyo Tires has agreed to meet ALL contingencies that Hoosier offers to the regional Spec Miata program! Thank you Toyo!!

Also, Toyo Tires can still be ordered through Appalachian Tires to have them delivered to the track or to your door.

Thank you again to all of the help from everyone involved to make this initiative happen. See you at the track!

[38bfast]

That will be great till people start shaving them to make them fast and then have less life than the hoosiers. 

[Jim Drago]

That will be great till people start shaving them to make them fast and then have less life than the hoosiers. 

Way to stay positive and encouraging Ralphy

[38bfast]

Way to stay positive and encouraging Ralphy

Am I wrong? The data I have collected says no. 

[tynor]

Personally, shaved or not shaved, I'm probably going to try this.   I'm fed up with the delay on the promised SM8 and really getting tired of being one of Big John's favorite customer's at the tire truck.   I've been debating jumping ship to NASA for a couple of seasons due to the tire life of the SM7.

 

I had no idea this was being schemed and planned -- thanks Jeff and whoever else lobbied to make this happen.

[Jim Drago]

Am I wrong? The data I have collected says no. 

my experience and mostly from feel and memory.. 

 

Shaved  toyo to 1/32 less usable cycles than a Hoosier

 

Shaved  toyo to  2/32 less usable cycles than a Hoosier

 

Shaved  toyo to 3/32 similar usable cycles as a Hoosier

 

 

So yes if Racer A wants to have a Sticker Hoosier advantage with Toyos at a regional he/she can shave a Toyo to 2/32 or less 

 

But IMO, there are VERY FEW ( you can insert one, maybe 2 names here:)  ) that would do that at a regional less ARRC. 

 

But for the bulk of the competitors..  the disparity  between shaved 1/32 and 18 session full tread tires, I think it will be closer.

 

Where I think they may see a gain is sitting there 6-8 session toyos in the trailer for a few months, they will be able to come back and race those tires competitively at regionals. 

[38bfast]

I agree with you on most except for how many would fall down the rabbit hole of shaved. If someone wants to be at the pointy end they will shave. Or mange them to get to no rubber. Back in the day of RA1 we would shave to 2/32 or 1/32 and use them on test days till they got to slicks, then they became race tires. This was the norm for even regional races. Very few ran fat tires. I would run 4 sets so I could manage them down to race tires. If you didn't you were leaving time on the table. How quickly we forget history. 

[Tom Hampton]

Except, Raph you say all this as if noone is currently racing the RR...and this is some new fangled experiment by the SCCA.  SCCA (SE) didn't just discover some new tire that no SM has ever raced at regional level competition before. 

[38bfast]

Except, Raph you say all this as if noone is currently racing the RR...and this is some new fangled experiment by the SCCA.  SCCA (SE) didn't just discover some new tire that no SM has ever raced at regional level competition before. 

Yes, thus we have data on that tire. And know they are faster shaved. and know people are shaving them. 

[Jim Drago]

Am I wrong? The data I have collected says no. 

Just imagine if you guys implemented my tire marking program? Perhaps this would have never taken place...   

 

Letter submitted June 4, 2019 .. five months later... 

 

Letter #27041 is currently on the Spec Miata agenda.

After the Spec Miata committee reviews your letter, it will be sent to the CRB for their review.

 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Just imagine if you guys implemented my tire marking program? Perhaps this would have never taken place...   

 

 

Oh no way that would never work... 

[Tom Sager]

We need a better tire or a tire rule limiting the use of tires (or both).  SEDIV is simply responding to the needs of their "constituents".  Heck Autobahn Country Club which has a 12 or more race series during the year limits their wealthy member/competitors to something like 4 sets for the entire season including qualifying and races if I understand it correctly.   

[Parity]

I would go with Toyo's in a heart beat for all the reasons mentioned. Also, last NASA SM race at NJMP Ben Miler was .3 under SCCA lap record on fresh Toyo's.

[Jim Creighton]

This is set to be discussed and approved or not at the SEDiv annual meeting in Feb. It was requested and we have responded. We added the classes to the four races between the SIC and the meeting. If approved, we will make them SARRC SEDiv approved classes and eligible for SARRC points.

 

If someone could suggest a way to not allow shaved tires, I'm sure we would include. But, short of having them marked before using, I don't know a way to enforce.

[LarryKing]

Any NASA racers care to chime in on how rampant Toyo tire shaving is at NASA's equivalent to divisional races. Does "everyone" do it?

 

I tend to think most budget racers would prefer to get more competitive cycles and therefore self-police on shaving rather than f-up a SCCA Toyo class by gaming the system.

 

Will there be an SMSET class too? 

[Parity]

Never seen shaved Toyo RR's in NASA NE regionals

[av8tor]

not a huge SM class in FLA or SE but I haven't seen or heard of shaved Toyos at NASA in either region. I'm very happy about the CFR decision to bring on the SM(Toyo) class. So far it is funny to see the guys who are not running the Toyo's, seem to be the same ones who may or may not have their restrictor plates installed on any given day. They are going to beat the People's Champ even if they have to pull their plates and run on Hoosiers to do it.   

[Jim Drago]

Any NASA racers care to chime in on how rampant Toyo tire shaving is at NASA's equivalent to divisional races. Does "everyone" do it?

 

I tend to think most budget racers would prefer to get more competitive cycles and therefore self-police on shaving rather than f-up a SCCA Toyo class by gaming the system.

 

 

This is twice in like 2-3 months.. getting scary    I agree here. 

Maybe at the ARRC or if all the big guys come to a Daytona race.. Maybe a VERY few would shave..  But if these guys are running all year long, they likely have some thin used tires and wont even need to shave.   Shaving seems opposite of what those wanting this tire are trying to accomplish

[Caveman-kwebb99]

This is twice in like 2-3 months.. getting scary    I agree here. 

Maybe at the ARRC or if all the big guys come to a Daytona race.. Maybe a VERY few would shave..  But if these guys are running all year long, they likely have some thin used tires and wont even need to shave.   Shaving seems opposite of what those wanting this tire are trying to accomplish

 

This not a big deal until the whole class is on the same toyo tire and and all the best show up... then everyone is back to having 4 sets of tires shaved differrent depths etc just like the good old days.  I personally am happy to run the tire the class wants but either way we need to limit tires to make it fair for all  I do not want to ever have to buy more then one set of tires for the weekend, that is just sucking the life out of the class IMO.  

 

Maybe if the hoosier tire reward was not 4 tires for a win in the super tour was dropped down to two tires and take the other two tires and drop them down to p4 or beyond it would discourage the running more then one set???? Not sure what it will take short of a hard tire limit rule!

[Jim Drago]

This not a big deal until the whole class is on the same toyo tire and and all the best show up... then everyone is back to having 4 sets of tires shaved differrent depths etc just like the good old days.  I personally am happy to run the tire the class wants but either way we need to limit tires to make it fair for all  I do not want to ever have to buy more then one set of tires for the weekend, that is just sucking the life out of the class IMO.

yeah, but its not.. Its a regional class

Maybe if the Hoosier tire reward was not 4 tires for a win in the super tour was dropped down to two tires and take the other two tires and drop them down to p4 or beyond it would discourage the running more then one set???? Not sure what it will take short of a hard tire limit rule!

That's funny that will not discourage anyone IMO