107 replies to this topic

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Just ran another test yesterday with Luke Bickham and ran the Hoosiers until no lines left....up until then they remained faster than the Toyo. Once the lines are gone we found zero grip....that took 7 sessions on a very abrasive track.

Time of the Hoosier relative to the Toyo is irrelevant - what was the laptime of that Hoosier relative to when it was had 1, 2 or 3 HC?

The hoosier has that magic lap (we seemed to see it at Sonoma during our Rational) so people can be coaxed into buying more tires to run at the front whereas the Toyo seems to have more area under the curve for it's happy place.

[Rob Burgoon]

How about the other way around. Has or could the BOD or assistants or marketing contacted all the MFGs, Hankook, Kumho, Nitto, Yokohama, BFG, Pirelli, Michelin, etc and see what they have to offer. Who's interested, what have they got and go from there.
Then you may get questions like... would you pay $400 for a 20hc tire?
J~

Have you looked at the Hoosier catalog? It's MASSIVE. Hoosier will just ask "how slow do you want to go?" and ask if we will try a bias ply.

You gotta narrow down the parameters first. We need to decide how hard of a tire we can abide first, as well as if we are willing to deal with a tire that overheats easily.

[Johnny D]

the tire company is offering the club in terms of contingency, support, and/or money for the SCCA coffers.

Was talking more about this ^ for the other MFGs.

I think TOYO has been really good to us in SFR.
J~

[Johnny D]

Have you looked at the Hoosier catalog? It's MASSIVE. Hoosier will just ask "how slow do you want to go?" and ask if we will try a bias ply.

You gotta narrow down the parameters first. We need to decide how hard of a tire we can abide first, as well as if we are willing to deal with a tire that overheats easily.

SCCA has the contract. It's up to us to answer the question "if" you don't like what you got.
I thought Jim's post was pretty good.
J~

As far as hard tires.. I think a hard tire that has little to no benefit session 1 to session 20 would be ideal if it weren't an absolute brick. Not sure if such a tire exists, if so, I would be all for it when the contract comes up. The Grand Am Hoosier is harder, but not sure if you would need stickers every session then) But then, none of this has anything to do with the thread.

[Jim Drago]

IIRC there was a survey on what people wanted in a tire. No shaving was on the list among other things. Only trouble is the list options weren't weighted, so "molded tire" could have been interpreted as important as "long life" or "cost per tire". Also "long life" may not have been spelled out as "long competitive life".

In hindsight, using a survey to describe the ideal tire probably wasn't the best idea.

For next time (in the spirit of our country's democratic silly season), how about making everything public. Create a test day report document that lists pros, cons, tester's impressions and such. Then create a document that discusses what the tire company is offering the club in terms of contingency, support, and/or money for the SCCA coffers.

Then have a vote by the SM racing SCCA members.

Whatcha guys think? Jim?

Also with the survey.. Many don't think their answers through.. How important is contingency?? Well how many of you answered, not important thinking why give the front runners tires? Well when the survey answers come back A) favoring to a non shaved tire A tire with track support C) contingency not very important. What did we expect the BOD to pick? With that feedback that was the only real choice,

As an observer to the last tire test.. I have seen the test report.. Hoosier won, RA1 was second and R888 third, when all parameters were accounted, Yet we chose R888, thinking that would be best for the class and staying with Toyo. I am not involved nor do I have any input or hear any of these discussions, completely different deal than the CRB.

One thing I will say is that in any realistic test that has been done.. All tires are tested over one weekend. It has been my experience that SM6, Ra1 and R888 will all give you consistent times over just about as many cycles you can put on them in two days.. Let those tires sit 3-4 weeks and then see what happens. All the tires tested were very suitable spec tires. I would not be comfortable personally on a different tire after only a weekend long test. We are the best people to test the tires as it is weeks of use etc that matter most to our class. It will be interesting to see if the new Toyo gives multiple cycles like the Ra1 did without shaving. If so, it will be an interesting decision coming up. Then we have Good year and BFG and who knows who else.

[Craig Berry]

Time of the Hoosier relative to the Toyo is irrelevant - what was the laptime of that Hoosier relative to when it was had 1, 2 or 3 HC?

The hoosier has that magic lap (we seemed to see it at Sonoma during our Rational) so people can be coaxed into buying more tires to run at the front whereas the Toyo seems to have more area under the curve for it's happy place.

Brian, I agree lap time doesn't matter... Was just trying to point out info. We can run on anything, it will not change my approach. I think some that don't run many tracks or many hours of time should know that at some tracks things change(not always the tire) temperature, greeness of asphalt etcc...more fresh rubber will be required. Our data showed that where you needed new Toyos to run your fastest, you needed new Hoosiers... Where you can go fast with cycled Toyos, you could run cycled Hoosiers. I am just wondering out loud, if stickers will be stickers depending on time an place, no matter what the tire manufacturer?
I gave my opinion on what I like, but that's because of my background in racing. A spec class, all on the same tire is really the only thing
important.... Just happy to be in Spec Miata, whatever tire you guys want will be fine with many of us.
And Brian to answer your question the Hoosier was faster every HC relative to the toyo.... Even same life at Same track, but we know that may NOT be the case for everyone, everywhere.
Again, I have no Strong personal opinion, but I do have hours of data I wanted to pass on

[Craig Berry]

Brian, just read your question again, and don't think I answered (watching football, can't do 2 things at once). At my last test the Hoosiers were a little slower every cycle... Same as the Toyos at that track. We have Not always seen that with both tires.

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Thanks Craig - that's very valuable (and what I was getting at). Of course, ambient or other things could lead to small shifts too. The Toyos are the same, except, at least out here, they seem to get faster as they wear up to a point assuming you aren't starting on < 2/32". I do like that with the Hoosiers (and possibly the RR) you would have that known quantity factor. I dislike that it's at the beginning of the Hoosier's cycle because that just makes us want to keep buying new tires instead of waiting for existing ones to come in. I admit, totally mental, but one seems better.