35 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Thanks Butch

That is all anyone can really ask and I second the difficulty in scheduling, there are 15 things you would never think would come into play, but somehow ALWAYS do when making schedules and run groups.

Jim

[Curtis]

Kelley, your attitude towards this is a prime example of why car counts are low. I don't know you and you don't know me so take this for what it is worth. We were combined with classes that have no idea how to "race" the drivers sucked bad and most have never raced near another car in there class in there lives. The amount of cars out of sm could have easily fit in the other alphabet soup class with no problem. The alphabet soup classes are used to racing multiple speed and talent levels and those cars grouped with sm would have been no different. Bottom line is sm and srf is the only truely competitive class left in the Scca and need to have there own class!!! I'm sorry if this seems selfish or one sided but there are too many classes and far too many officials thinking I should just deal with it. Bottom line is srf and sm are the only reason the Scca exist and if the Scca doesn't soon realize it they will die. NASA has taken over on car count in my region having at least double the car count soley because they listen to the drivers and accept the input from the members. Scca seems to think they're better than everyone and refuses to adapt to the changing times. Scca's prices are higher the track time is lower and the entire experience is more stressful. If the Scca doesn't soon realize that they're a club and not a dictatorship, lower they're national fees and control the misappropriation of funds they will no longer exist. I am proud to be an Scca member, it's where I started, it's where I plan to finish. Here's hoping somebody wakes up and does the right thing. Thanks, a consummate Scca majors/super tour/runoffs driver since 2010
Chris Haldeman member #412747

 

 

Not sure what Kelly said but do know that she and her husband Will have been traveling from NE and working every National at Hallet, at their own expense, for decades, just so the rest of us can race.  Also that they are considered "salt of the earth" sort of nice people by almost everyone at the track and I mean everyone. 

 

The truth is that SM can't run with the Prod cars because they already do, as second entry STL cars (or in Matt, Charlie, and Mike's case as prod and Bspec entries), and the Regions right now have to have these entries for a race weekend to be viable.  Just like in every other class some of these STL double dippers are the best of the best, and a joy to race with, and some of mediocre or less talent just looking for a car without a bumper to intimidate. I accept it.  It is the way it is and the way it has to be.

 

The Eprod and the Fprod races at Hallet were every bit as hotly contested and every bit as exciting as the SM race despite having to work around SMs moonlighting as STL cars,  just cruising around in the way for extra track time.  What SM had to deal with while frustrating is not unique to SM.  It's the only way to pay the bills in this economy.

 

Sorry to but in.  Been reading you guys forum and enjoying your races for years.  Huxtables, like many of our worker volunteers, are a blessing the club could not do without.

 

Curtis Wood

Prod Driver

 

PS. The quality of driving in your group was proven when the BMW Z4 crossed the finish line without a scratch LOL

[chris haldeman]

I was trying to say the very few cars that were grouped with sm should have had no ill effect running in group 1 instead of sm. I also was not blaming Kelley or her husband or any other. Just for reference while I was standing in a corner station Sunday the z4 you mentioned was being referred too as a rolling chicane by the workers and was involved in almost every radio communication.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

The issue wasn't the Z4 (at least for me), yes I did lap him 4 times on Sunday, but he was extremely courteous while being lapped. The bigger problem was the Acura's. They were racing within their class, they are super slow in the corners and lightning fast down the straights. This lead to frustration and low percentage moves while lapping them. That is a very dangerous combination.

[Jim Drago]

While I agree on all Curtis said about the Huxtables, they have been donating time long before I even started racing. I really don't think Chris post was meant to offend them.  I think it was just frustration of our grouping.

All of us should be used to traffic, we all know we need to deal with traffic and mixed groups, especially at smaller events. I think most are fine with that, I am.  I think where the opinions differ is on big races like the majors. Most on this forum( no surprise) feel that all must be treated fairly. Fairly does not mean equally! As long as SM is the largest class in the club and brings in the most revenue, the "fair" thing to do would be to give them their own run group whenever possible. If not possible because of the conflicts, I understand that as well. But every effort should be made to do so.  Sm should be the last group inconvenienced when considering groupings. That may not seem "fair" to non SM drivers. The answer to that would to increase your numbers to that above SM and then you should get those benefits.  I know I try to treat all my customers fairly, but when one of my best customers needs something in a hurry, they seldom just get put at the back of the line. 

 

I looked at Sundays double dippers in STL.. To my surprise there were ZERO Miatas running STL and SM, just for the record.  I often double dip in STL as do many other SM cars, I can't speak for all in production, but I am seldom in anyone elses way and ALWAYS very respectful when the faster cars are coming through. I make a point to always let any two/three cars battling through together, not one at a time and disrupt their races. I am sure there are MANY bad Sm drivers, but I must say, when I am lapping Sm drivers, they seldom hold me up or race me, most are extremely respectful. I have no idea if that holds true when production cars are passing them etc.  In reality, if you are in a production, a car that should handle better and be faster than ALL Sm's by a significant margin, you should never have much of an issue passing them. Start throwing in some t2 cars and the problems will start as they will be faster on the straights, hold you up in the corners and race you to the next with a faster car.

There is no easy answer,  we will always have combined groups and we will have to deal with that reality in Club Racing. Their is some truth to what Kelly said, had we had 30+ cars, we likely would have had our own group. We will see what happens next year. Hopefully more SM drivers will come and we will have our own group.   

[Caveman-kwebb99]

this is just one guys opinions and they are like you know what we all have them.

 

Some of the problem here IMO is that we are holding majors at some tracks that are not truly worthy of holding a major at, while hallet may be someones favorite track, there has not been one time in my short racing carreer and I said to myself Wow I really have to do that event at Hallet, what an incredible track that would be to drive across the country for...

 

There are plenty of others I feel the same about that are currently scheduled as Majors,

May 24-26* - Pikes Peak International Raceway
July 6-7* - High Plains Raceway
Aug. 3-4* - Gateway Motorsports Park (Joint event with Northern)

May 25-26* - Michigan International Speedway
July 13-14* - Gingerman Raceway
Aug. 3-4* - Gateway Motorsports Park (Joint event with Mid-States)

 

I may even participate in some of these, but certainly would not rank any of these tracks very high on my desired destination list.  I just cant help but think that if I feel this way maybe I am not the only one, and if that is true it will hold down entry numbers at these and possibly other tracks around the country.  I personally think there are to many majors on the schedule...  If the aim is to bring back prestige etc etc.  there should be fewer events all at top drawing tracks such as the COTA's, VIR's, Sebring's, Watkins Glen, and so forth.  If there were fewer events I believe just as with COTA you would see more racers flocking in to race the best competiton in the country at those destinations, The counrty should be divided East/ West not into the current division structure, make it a real deal to win the eastern title, run only the best tracks put on only the best races, and the people will come.  It just blows my mind that as a club we think we will restore prestige to club racing by holding a major at Gateway Park...  not to pick on that track specifically but just my 2cents...

 

ALSO THANK YOU TO ALL OUR WORKERS AS WE WOULD HAVE NOWHERE TO RACE PERIOD IF IT WERE NOT FOR ALL THEIR EFFORTS!

[wheel]

Since I rarely run the SM any more (it was combined in the group with ASedan in Midiv) I need to comment on the SM races I have watched, not raced.  I have never seen an SM race, that included other classes, that wasn't at least partially ruined by the other cars involved.  Whether it was a T or SS car running 4th overall, but getting in the middle of a bunch of SMs, or a back marker screwing up the five car lead group because only three of them got by before the next corner.  There is no question, in my mind, that SM should always have their own run group, until their numbers prove that they no longer deserve their own race.  Split starts are not the answer because, with a split start you just delay the damage until late in the race when it is most important to let the racing play out without interference.  

[Mike Asselta]

The issue wasn't the Z4 (at least for me), yes I did lap him 4 times on Sunday, but he was extremely courteous while being lapped. The bigger problem was the Acura's. They were racing within their class, they are super slow in the corners and lightning fast down the straights. This lead to frustration and low percentage moves while lapping them. That is a very dangerous combination.

Agree with Brian....at least one Acura became frustrated and hostile, deliberately ramming his car into my door on my fourth clean pass on him in a single lap, having decided that my race for 5th in SM was interfering with his race for 1st in T4. Nobody was happy ultimately.

And the Huxtables rock!

No, Chris......NO!

[Jim Drago]

While I think we all had an issue with those guys. I'm not sure I would have felt any differently if I were them. They were racing for the win of a major and while not on the level of our races, they had a good race going themselves.  So I doubt they liked us in the middle of their race any more than we liked them on the same track as us

[trey]

I can't imagine anybody in another class that wants to run with SM .

 

I recently sold my ITA/STL miata , I would prefer to run it with alphabet soup group , but would not stay home because it was grouped with SM.

 

I recently bought an 06 MX5 that will be a T4 car. Having run DE's with SM's ( taking the year off from racing ) , I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather stay home than race with the SM's , so far my car ( in SSB trim ) is much quicker coming off the corner , but also much slower in the corners. It's just a recipe for lots of man drama  when these cars are grouped together in a Major's environment. I have way too much respect for the SM's to get in the middle of an SM Majors race.

 

I ran for many years in SRF and it's pretty much the same story over there.

 

SM & SRF need their own groups 

[rx555]

this is just one guys opinions and they are like you know what we all have them.

 

Some of the problem here IMO is that we are holding majors at some tracks that are not truly worthy of holding a major at, while hallet may be someones favorite track, there has not been one time in my short racing carreer and I said to myself Wow I really have to do that event at Hallet, what an incredible track that would be to drive across the country for...

 

There are plenty of others I feel the same about that are currently scheduled as Majors,

May 24-26* - Pikes Peak International Raceway
July 6-7* - High Plains Raceway
Aug. 3-4* - Gateway Motorsports Park (Joint event with Northern)

May 25-26* - Michigan International Speedway
July 13-14* - Gingerman Raceway
Aug. 3-4* - Gateway Motorsports Park (Joint event with Mid-States)

 

I may even participate in some of these, but certainly would not rank any of these tracks very high on my desired destination list.  I just cant help but think that if I feel this way maybe I am not the only one, and if that is true it will hold down entry numbers at these and possibly other tracks around the country.  I personally think there are to many majors on the schedule...  If the aim is to bring back prestige etc etc.  there should be fewer events all at top drawing tracks such as the COTA's, VIR's, Sebring's, Watkins Glen, and so forth.  If there were fewer events I believe just as with COTA you would see more racers flocking in to race the best competiton in the country at those destinations, The counrty should be divided East/ West not into the current division structure, make it a real deal to win the eastern title, run only the best tracks put on only the best races, and the people will come.  It just blows my mind that as a club we think we will restore prestige to club racing by holding a major at Gateway Park...  not to pick on that track specifically but just my 2cents...

 

ALSO THANK YOU TO ALL OUR WORKERS AS WE WOULD HAVE NOWHERE TO RACE PERIOD IF IT WERE NOT FOR ALL THEIR EFFORTS!

 

From what I am told, we at Gateway got that race because no one else could do it or wanted it.  So our region jumped on it.  I would agree that it's not exactly the most glamorous of tracks, but would hope that everyone will still support it.  I have signed on to be the asst. race chair for it, since there's no place for my IT car to run that weekend.

 

As far as the other comments about too many races, I think I have to disagree.  I'm still not sold on the Majors concept and think we should just be club racing with no levels of national or regional.  It works for Nasa.  If people really want glamour and to run at all the famous tracks, then maybe Grand-Am or World Challenge is where they should be.  If you leave out all the smaller SCCA type tracks, I don't think the car counts or regions would survive.

[Jim Drago]

From what I am told, we at Gateway got that race because no one else could do it or wanted it.  So our region jumped on it.  I would agree that it's not exactly the most glamorous of tracks, but would hope that everyone will still support it.  I have signed on to be the asst. race chair for it, since there's no place for my IT car to run that weekend.

 

As far as the other comments about too many races, I think I have to disagree.  I'm still not sold on the Majors concept and think we should just be club racing with no levels of national or regional.  It works for Nasa.  If people really want glamour and to run at all the famous tracks, then maybe Grand-Am or World Challenge is where they should be.  If you leave out all the smaller SCCA type tracks, I don't think the car counts or regions would survive.

 

 

Different strokes for different folks.. 

 

I don't like to race at events where there are few cars and no competition. I was registered at Gateway last year, but was the only Sm, so I withdrew and went to Atlanta.  I chose SM to "race", rarely do you find an SM race where you have 3 or 4 cars. I have no interest in that type of racing. I like the majors format for that reason. There is and always will be room for club racing. It is just not what I prefer.

 

That being said, I like Gateway, it is fun. I will be there.  The problem with Gateway is it is one of the most dangerous track I go to. There is little room for a mistake and most mistakes there can total your car and/or hurt you.

 

Jim 

[Bench Racer]

Different strokes for different folks.. 
 
The problem with Gateway is it is one of the most dangerous track I go to. There is little room for a mistake and most mistakes there can total your car and/or hurt you.
 
Jim

First time there, T3 & T4 kept my attention (Hmm, this thing slips right and it's to the high side wall reall QUICK ) and still did on my second trip to GateWay.
 

   As a side, it's friken snowing at the moment like it's the middle January.

[Jim Drago]

I got a few shots of the car from Hallett.. Not sure on the headlights.. looks a little like a Horse fly

 

 

 

 

[wheel]

I think they would look better with one of the darker greens.  Still a good looking car.

wheel

[Bench Racer]

Not sure on the headlights..

 

looks a little like a Horse fly

As Wheel said, darker green.      Cover blinker better.

 

 

They were attracted to the other paint scheme.   

 

 

Much neater than previous scheme.