60 replies to this topic

[Ron Alan]

A 3 day, 5 session regional weekend in SFR at Laguna or Sonoma was $525 I beleve this year!

[davew]

I have a couple suggestions:

 

Combine classes at the Runoffs/Majors level, as mentioned above T1 and GT2 could be combined with ease. What about FB, FC and FE. All are wings and slick open wheel cars with similar lap times and rules. EP and GT3, FP becomes the new GT4,  HP and GTL. This will take someone with more free time (and free brain space) than I have to figure out all the details. I figure we should be able to get to 18 classes without making any car ineleigable.

 

I am tired of seeing race groups with 9 cars and 6 winners.

 

5 classes for production looking cars. Weight restriction for slicks/DOT tires, Tube versus tub frame etc.

5 classes for open wheel cars, Atlantic, B-C-E, Mazda and Vee

2 classes for Sports racers

6 specialty classes B-Spec, SM, AS, STU, STL, SRF

 

 

What made SM and SRF the most popular classes in SCCA? Competition, Competition, Competition

 

Allow event organisers to alter the schedule 7 days prior to the event, based on pre-registered competitors. I just looked at the entry list for the Fall Sprints at Blackhawk next week. There are race groups with only 2 cars !!!!! Yet the SRF and SM are in the same race group with 20+ entrys. At this point the race groups need to be adjusted. But the GCR does not allow it, and the officials do not want to do it at the last minute at the track. So we continue to have unbalanced/illogical groups.

 

Just me ideas

Dave

[Danny Steyn]

Email sent to Jeff Dahnert and Butch Kummer expressing my displeasure at the proposed format

[Blake Clements]

Email sent to Jeff Dahnert and Butch Kummer expressing my displeasure at the proposed format

 

WE KNOW IF DANNY CAN'T SEE THE POSITIVE IN SOMETHING THIS IS JACKED UP!  

[luckymiata76]

What made SM and SRF the most popular classes in SCCA? Competition, Competition, Competition

 

 

I agree with Dave, but let me add-cheap, cheap, cheap and reliable, reliable, reliable.

 

Jeff

[FTodaro]

I have a couple suggestions:

 

Combine classes at the Runoffs/Majors level, as mentioned above T1 and GT2 could be combined with ease. What about FB, FC and FE. All are wings and slick open wheel cars with similar lap times and rules. EP and GT3, FP becomes the new GT4,  HP and GTL. This will take someone with more free time (and free brain space) than I have to figure out all the details. I figure we should be able to get to 18 classes without making any car ineleigable.

 

I am tired of seeing race groups with 9 cars and 6 winners.

 

5 classes for production looking cars. Weight restriction for slicks/DOT tires, Tube versus tub frame etc.

5 classes for open wheel cars, Atlantic, B-C-E, Mazda and Vee

2 classes for Sports racers

6 specialty classes B-Spec, SM, AS, STU, STL, SRF

 

 

What made SM and SRF the most popular classes in SCCA? Competition, Competition, Competition

 

Allow event organisers to alter the schedule 7 days prior to the event, based on pre-registered competitors. I just looked at the entry list for the Fall Sprints at Blackhawk next week. There are race groups with only 2 cars !!!!! Yet the SRF and SM are in the same race group with 20+ entrys. At this point the race groups need to be adjusted. But the GCR does not allow it, and the officials do not want to do it at the last minute at the track. So we continue to have unbalanced/illogical groups.

 

Just me ideas

Dave

We used to have this issue in our regional races and after a bit of yacking i and others were able to convince our group that the two largest classes should not run together, SRF and SM, so we now have them split.

Someone explain to me the rational of the rules that do not allow club organizers to make changes to groups and schedules based upon who signed up. I know this is the SCCA way of doing things but that does not make it right.

If you want to provide better customer service you have to give the event organizers flexibility to make adjustments.

 

And can someone in the know tell me why they don't buy more track time.

 

I can do it for a PCA club race and DE so why not for a Major?? NASA does it!

 

last year an extra hr of track time at Mid O was 1250.00 That is two major's entry's.

[DrDomm]

Email sent to Jeff Dahnert and Butch Kummer expressing my displeasure at the proposed format

 

Danny, why don't you post their email addresses here?  I'm too lazy to look them up.

[luckymiata76]

My e-mail to Butch...

 

Butch,

There's a lot of kick-back on the 20 minute race proposal on mazdaracers.com.

 

Reply...

 

I've been following the discussion and we have lots to consider next week before the BoD gets to town next Thursday.

[Johnny D]

Danny, why don't you post their email addresses here?  I'm too lazy to look them up.

 

1st post, can you make it over there ?

J~

[Johnny D]

My e-mail to Butch...

 

Butch,

There's a lot of kick-back on the 20 minute race proposal on mazdaracers.com.

 

Reply...

 

I've been following the discussion and we have lots to consider next week before the BoD gets to town next Thursday.

 

Hi Butch !! 

J~

[Brian Ghidinelli]

If you want to provide better customer service you have to give the event organizers flexibility to make adjustments.

 

And can someone in the know tell me why they don't buy more track time.

 

Which customer are you talking about?  There was a protest and an uproar at COTA because they tried to change the schedule which impacted people's flights and travel schedules.  When customers, in this case racers, buy something based on a schedule, they generally want to get what they bought.  We're lucky in SM but in other classes, randomly getting combined at the last minute with other classes is NOT a better experience.

 

As for track time - some places you can, some you can't.  You also have to be mindful of the workers who, unlike the racers, aren't out there 30-45 minutes at a time (and many aren't spring chickens).

 

A 3 day, 5 session regional weekend in SFR at Laguna or Sonoma was $525 I beleve this year!

 

If you run a Tier A track, you're paying 20k+/day for the bare asphalt. Do the math. Entry fees are a direct reflection of the costs divided by the number of people showing up.  There is no world in which the hard costs associated with running events will decrease significantly so the answer to higher entry fees is to increase participation per event.

 

Before anyone says that high fees are the reason for lower participation, I can at least say in SFR that entry fee changes trail participation by 1-2 seasons meaning they reflect what's happened rather than the other way around. 

 

(and, specifically for Majors ,there is a $50/car surcharge that is getting passed along)

[Ron Alan]

If you run a Tier A track, you're paying 20k+/day for the bare asphalt. Do the math. Entry fees are a direct reflection of the costs divided by the number of people showing up.  There is no world in which the hard costs associated with running events will decrease significantly so the answer to higher entry fees is to increase participation per event.

 

Before anyone says that high fees are the reason for lower participation, I can at least say in SFR that entry fee changes trail participation by 1-2 seasons meaning they reflect what's happened rather than the other way around. 

 

(and, specifically for Majors ,there is a $50/car surcharge that is getting passed along)

To clarify, I wasnt complaining   Just pointing out to a previous post maybe what they were complaining about wasnt so bad!

 

On an off topic but somewhat related issue...I had a reason to look at and register for a NASA event. I was blown away at the tiered pricing structure depending on which race group you run...WOW

[suck fumes]

It's a lot cheaper

[Caveman-kwebb99]

And u r assured to run a mixed class race why don't u ask a nasa pro like kyle l how he feels about those mixed class races

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

And u r assured to run a mixed class race why don't u ask a nasa pro like kyle l how he feels about those mixed class races

In Texas we almost never run a mixed group in SM. The only time it has happened is when we don't register till the last minute so participation looks light when they do the schedule.

In general, our NASA races have twice the SM participation compared to the SCCA races.

[Ron Alan]

It's a lot cheaper

If this was in reference to what i posted about tiered pricing...I think you missed what I was trying to say.

 

Yes...for SM the weekends are cheaper than SCCA . But I believe SCCA charges every racer the same regardless of class. On the NASA reg form I was looking at, when SM was paying $350 for a 6 session weekend, Other groups were paying as much as $800-$1000 for the same time? If you drive a Porsche, apparently NASA feels you can afford to pay more! 

[Johnny D]

So off topic..

at least in SFR, ya it's cheaper but you get 25min session instead of 30. a little $ offset.

I think NASA sees and understands along with team, you got 14 open wheels or whatever and you want the track session alone, you'll have to pay more.

J~

[Brian Ghidinelli]

So off topic..
at least in SFR, ya it's cheaper but you get 25min session instead of 30. a little $ offset.
I think NASA sees and understands along with team, you got 14 open wheels or whatever and you want the track session alone, you'll have to pay more.
J~

One difference (at least in sfr) is we run time certain and race lengths reflect green flag time. NASA schedules are from the time you leave the pits until you exit the cool down lap. So a 30 min session is about 21-22 mins of racing vs. 30. Probably not the same elsewhere but worth mentioning n the context of the conversation about 20 minute sprint races. 20 mins of green flag would be about equivalent to one of our nasa races I think? I personally have just as much fun in a short race as a longer race.

[Butch Kummer]

So off topic..
at least in SFR, ya it's cheaper but you get 25min session instead of 30. a little $ offset.
I think NASA sees and understands along with team, you got 14 open wheels or whatever and you want the track session alone, you'll have to pay more.
J~

Wow - I was unaware anyone was doing this!

When I was Competition Director for Atlanta Region I was continually getting crap from undersubscribed classes because I wouldn't give them their own run group. In response I proposed the idea of a fixed price per group, say $10,000, for the weekend. If your group had ten cars the entry fee was $1000 each, but if you had 50 cars it was $200 each. Most of the time that shut them up.

I can hear the complaints about self-fulfilling prophecies and all, but how's that tiered structure working out? Are the undersubscribed groups actively recruiting new racers (and getting bigger) or are they getting smaller?

[Ron Alan]

Wow - I was unaware anyone was doing this!

When I was Competition Director for Atlanta Region I was continually getting crap from undersubscribed classes because I wouldn't give them their own run group. In response I proposed the idea of a fixed price per group, say $10,000, for the weekend. If your group had ten cars the entry fee was $1000 each, but if you had 50 cars it was $200 each. Most of the time that shut them up.

I can hear the complaints about self-fulfilling prophecies and all, but how's that tiered structure working out? Are the undersubscribed groups actively recruiting new racers (and getting bigger) or are they getting smaller?

To clarify...Johnnys post refers to NASA and my comments about different pricing...not SCCA. And yes, apparently they pay!